Adoption and Original birth certificate

[aidansrest]

Hi

Just after some advice, or confirmation of what we've been told is correct.

My friend's husband's grandfather was adopted. He was born in 1926 and died in 1988, and we are trying to locate his original birth certificate to obtain, at the least, his mother's name.
As far as we are aware, he had no other siblings.

We have his name at birth, his date of birth and the exact location of where he believed he was actually born, but, because he was adopted (and we do know both the adoptive parent's names - he was living with them at the time of the 1939 register), there does not appear to be a record of his original birth registration in the public domain.
We were told that this is because he was adopted and that special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO, and to access information about an adopted person the family must use a registered adoption intermediary.
We have done this, and been given some advice and guidance of what would be needed for a investigation to begin, but it is very costly!

Does anyone know of an easier way to do this without the use of an intermediary?

Many thanks

Sue

[california dreamin]

Hi Sue

His birth will have been registered. Perhaps you are using the wrong details when looking at the birth index? An adoption certificate does not supersede a b/c index entry.

CD

[rosie99]

You have another post on this subject   
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=892336.

[aidansrest]

Hi

Firstly, yes, I must apologise I should have tagged this onto the previous post, but we had moved on slightly from then, so I thought I would have to start over again.

Secondly, we have searched for the person using the details he knew about himself for his original birth registration and were unable to locate it.
I did mention this to the intermediary and she replied;

If it is in the public domain and you know the details you can, but if the person was adopted and you are trying to find their original birth certificate then you cannot as special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO.

Some people know their original identity in which case they already hold the information.

So, from that I'm guessing that this may be why the original cannot be traced?

Would you agee?

Sue
 

[PaulineJ]

I think you would be better off just relating the information as you have it.
add in the 1939 register details too. The gentleman is long gone.

Was it a formal adoption? Is there a certificate in the adoptive name?

[california dreamin]

Hi

Firstly, yes, I must apologise I should have tagged this onto the previous post, but we had moved on slightly from then, so I thought I would have to start over again.

Secondly, we have searched for the person using the details he knew about himself for his original birth registration and were unable to locate it.
I did mention this to the intermediary and she replied;

If it is in the public domain and you know the details you can, but if the person was adopted and you are trying to find their original birth certificate then you cannot as special forms have to be filled in for the Home Office/GRO.

Some people know their original identity in which case they already hold the information.

So, from that I'm guessing that this may be why the original cannot be traced?

Would you agee?

Sue

Sorry to disagree with the intermediary.  His original birth will have been registered. Therefore, it will appear in the indexes. This item can be ordered. 

When a  person is legally adopted they are given an adoption certificate this supersedes the original b/c for legal purposes.  The original b/c will be marked in the lower right hand corner 'adopted'.  And just for clarity legal adoption was established with the Adoption of Children Act 1926, which came into effect on January 1, 1927. 

So, was he legally adopted?  Have you looked for him in the GRO index using his 'adopted' name just in case?  Just a thought??

CD

[aidansrest]

Hi

Thank you _ will definitely take a look!

Sue

[Jebber]

You say you know his birth name, do you mean just his first name or both his first  and surname?  If the latter then you should be able to find it in the normal GRO  Index.

Some years ago when  a friend was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, before it became too late   he wanted to find out if he had any younger half siblings  as his parents had divorced.  He thought his father may  have remarried and he wondered if there were further children. The answer to that question was  NO,  his father had remarried  but there were no children from that relationship.

 What I did discover was that  his father had actually been married three times  and my friend was the result of the second marriage. There had been a son and daughter  from the first marriage which were his older  half siblings. I ordered their birth certificates hoping to discover what had become of them, only to find both certificates had Adopted out written in the margin so it was a dead end.

Most people know the Adopted name and are looking for the birth name, there's  no way to link a certificate marked Adopted out with the new Adopted certificates.

I should have added that the two births we 1921 and 1927.

[Gan Yam]

My MIL was adopted in 1930.  I have her adoption certificate and her original birth entry definitely still appears in the indexes.  I also have the original court order for the adoption and this gives the reference in the birth indexes to  the original birth entry. 

Was he legally adopted and if so could the legal paper work still exist somewhere?   Also are you sure  that the birth name that is  know is correct eg, he may think his name was "John" at birth, but could it have been James John and maybe appear in the indexes as James J making it hard to find.