Roberts and Hughes Anglesey Mystery

[Sessylt]

Hello all,

I'm hoping to ask for some assistance on a long-standing brickwall in the family tree. It centres around the couple John Roberts (1811–bef. 1851) and Jane Hughes (1816–). The initial point of reference is their children, Samuel (1838–1890) and Ann Jane (ca. 1841–1908). Both appear in Cumberland in the later censuses of the 19th century, listed as being born in various locations around Bangor and Anglesey. Their parents are confirmed on the earlier censuses and their marriage certificates. The mystery, then, is more information on their parents. I don't know when they married, or anything much about them. Jane remarried after John's death; marrying a Thomas Murray in 1847 (so, cautiously, John can be said to have died bef. 1847, not just by the time of the 1851 census). This leads to its own set of problems with a mysterious Murray daughter who disappears after one census and a seemingly duplicated line in the census, but that's a topic for another thread.

I would be really glad to have some assistance in finding out more about John Roberts and Jane Hughes before John's death (and including pinpointing his death), particularly their parents. It's very clear from my Ancestry DNA matches that I'm related to a lot of Roberts and Hughes in Wales, but I've not been able to pinpoint how without the parents of my couple.

I will list all of the sources below. To summarise, however, John Roberts is stated to be born in Amlwch and a hatter by trade. There may be some ties to Llanbadrig and Tynycapel. Jane is listed as born in Anglesey. Ann Jane, complicatedly, gives "Holywell" or Bangor in different records. Incidentally, though I said ca. 1841, her birth year is extremely volatile, ranging from 1841–1848 depending on the record. Samuel gave Anglesey, and the birth date of 1838 seems surer and more stable. That's about it for the Welsh context, I'm afraid.

John
England and Wales Census, 1841 (HO107 1362/2/51 6)
Marriage certificate of John Rowe and Ann Jane Roberts

Jane
England and Wales Census, 1841 (HO107 1362/2/51 6)
England and Wales Census, 1851 (HO107 2175/440 10)
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005 (1847, Vol 27 p. 382)

Samuel
England and Wales Census, 1841 (HO107 1362/2/51 6)
England and Wales Census, 1851 (HO107 2175/440 10)
England and Wales Census, 1861 (RG09 3951/78 44)
England and Wales Census, 1881 (RG11 5191/56 29)
Marriage certificate of John Rowe and Ann Jane Roberts

Ann Jane
England and Wales Census, 1851 (HO107 2175/440 10)
England and Wales Census, 1881 (RG11 5191/103 19)
England and Wales Census, 1891 (RG12 4317/64 64)
England and Wales Census, 1901 (RG13 286/56 49)
England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 (1867, Vol 10b p. 751)
Marriage certificate of John Rowe and Ann Jane Roberts

[Dundee]

......John Roberts is stated to be born in Amlwch and a hatter by trade.

He is a hatter in 1841, born in the county, but who says he was born in Amlwch?  In 1851 Jane and Samuel are both stated to be born in Denbighshire.

The marriage between Thomas MURRAY and Jane ROBERTS in 1847 names her father as Evan JONES, a miller.  Where has the surname HUGHES come from?

Debra 

[Milliepede]

The initial point of reference is their children, Samuel (1838–1890) and Ann Jane (ca. 1841–1908). Both appear in Cumberland in the later censuses of the 19th century, listed as being born in various locations around Bangor and Anglesey.

So those 2 births should be on the GRO index with mothers maiden name Jones as confirmed on the marriage certificate to Thomas Murray.

Unfortunately Roberts/Jones is as bad if not worse than Roberts/Hughes 

[Milliepede]

There are 3 Samuel Roberts with mothers name Jones on the GRO 1837-1839

Llanwrst Union - Sep 1838
Ruthin Union - Jun 1839
Warrington - Dec 1839

[heywood]

Births
Samuel Roberts June quarter 1839 Anglesey mmn Hughes

Samuel Roberts September 1838 Llanwrst mmn Jones
Samuel Roberts June quarter 1839 Ruthin mmn Jones

I can’t read the step daughter’s name in 1851,2175/440/10
She is aged 9 yrs so if it is Ann Jane , it would be about 1842

1851 shows Samuel b Denbighshire (Ruthin birth?)
The female child is born ‘Amblugh’, Anglesey - Amlwch?

[Sessylt]

Thanks for the information. I went for the Llanrwst birth as it seemed the most likely, and it was right on the money:

seventh of August 1838, town of Llanrwst | Samuel | boy | John Roberts | Jane Roberts, formerly Jones | hatter | the mark of X Jane Roberts, mother of the child, Bridge Street | eighth of september 1838 | Rob. Thomas, deputy registrar

This is definitely Samuel Roberts from the later censuses, so this confirms the children were actually from Denbighshire and that the marriage should actually be between John Roberts and Jane Jones. This tracks with her later marriage, so her father being Evan Jones can be accepted as well (though to be further confirmed).

I've also realised that "Ann Jane" may actually have been "Jane Ann" and flipped the names out of preference. This would mean looking for a Jane (Ann) birth rather than an Ann. Whetever the first name, it doesn't really narrow it down. I felt hopeful about a "Jane Anne Roberts mnm Jones" in Corwen (GRO Reference: 1843  M Quarter in CORWEN UNION  Volume 27  Page 155), but it's not her.

[osprey]

possible marriage Llanrwst 26 Feb 1836
John Roberts widower & Jane Jones spinster, both otp, he signed, she marked, witnesses Mary Jones &  S T T??, both signed.

Not the marriage 1 Aug 1837 in Pwllheli of a John Roberts & Jane Jones as that John was a joiner.

[Milliepede]

I've also realised that "Ann Jane" may actually have been "Jane Ann" and flipped the names out of preference.

Yes I wondered that too.  There is a Jane born Dec 1840 same district as Samuel but that would mean she was born pre 1841 census and assume she doesn't appear just Samuel?

[Milliepede]

Marriage certificate of John Rowe and Ann Jane Roberts

When was that please?

Having trouble finding census references