Tracking down poorly attested Whitehaven family

[mckha489]

Think this must be the one who married Cecil Elmes

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8bd95ac1-e001-4c6f-b035-6ff2a4bd6362

[mckha489]

I would feel happier if I could account for the other Catherine, but failing so far.

This is her birth (also with no Gertrude!)

TYSON, CATHARINE       MILLIGAN 
GRO Reference: 1870  M Quarter in ULVERSTONE  Volume 08E  Page 750

[Kay99]

Ravenglass is only a few miles from Muncaster and Ulverston is much further away

[mckha489]

Ravenglass is only a few miles from Muncaster and Ulverston is much further away

Yes.
But that is why I’d like to find the other Catherine later. To clearly get rid of her.

[Kay99]

One tree lists her as marrying Fred Swindlehurst in 1893 in Ulverston

[mckha489]

Here is the “other” Henry’s death which is AFTER the Indian marriage.
So that confirms?? The Indian marriage is the daughter of Selina?? Or at least, is not the daughter of this Henry and his wife (Sarah Milligan)

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/e3934ad9-c9ce-4b3a-84ea-473e445f008e

[Kay99]

Selina 1861?  Living at Egremont - all born Ireland

John Roe 60  Ag Lab
Catherine Roe 55 W Aife
Saleena Roe 15 Daughter

Added - In 1871 I think Henry and wife Selina are living next door to her married sister and family Margaret Obrien and husband Michael.   In later census years Margaret lists her birthplace as  Co Armagh, Ireland

[AlanBoyd]

22 June 1934 Newspaper: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer

£2,000 BEQUEST TO THE BISHOP OF HEXHAM
For Charitable Purposes in Diocese
Mrs. Catherine Gertrude Elmes, of West Park Road, Kew Gardens, Surrey formerly of Perceval Avenue, Belsize Park, London, N. W., who died on May 15, widow of Dr. Cecil Henry Elmes, C. B. E., formerly of Calcutta, leaving £84,427, with net personalty £82,304, left:-

£2,000 to the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh, to endow a bed or beds or cot or cots in the names of her late husband and herself.

£2,000 to the Roman Catholic Bishop of Hexham-and-Newcastle, for such charitable purposes in the diocese as he shall consider most deserving, and she expressed the hope that he will have masses said for the repose of the souls of her late husband and self.

£2,000 to St. Dominic's Priory, Southampton Road, Kentish Town, and she requested that masses be sald for the repose of the souls of her late husband and self.

Her death was the subject of an inquest, but the newspaper report on this provides no new information.

[Sessylt]

Thank you all for the information and help! I realised a bit late that I should probably have listed all of my sources! Here is what I had; I have only added the reference for Henry in the 1851 census, which I didn't know about (only 1861).

Selina Row
England and Wales Census, 1861 (RG09 3952/59 3)
England and Wales Census, 1871 (RG10 5263/54 6)

Re: the O'Briens, I was able to painstakingly confirm this as Selina's father John Roe's death certificate lists an O'Brien grandson as the informant.

Henry Tyson
England and Wales Census, 1851 (HO107 2437/508 12)
England and Wales Census, 1861 (RG09 3953/77 9)
England and Wales Census, 1871 (RG10 5263/54 6)
Death Certificate of Henry Tyson

The death certificate corresponds to the Bootle Workhouse Henry Tyson. I had always assumed the family was quite poor, but as I've said, the sheer number of Tysons (and Rowes) in Cumberland confuses matters quite a bit. One of the possible fathers for Henry was a known local thief. If Catherine Gertrude Elmes is the right Catherine, and did not exaggerate the "Esq.", I agree that we could probably cautiously exclude Workhouse Henry.

Henry Tyson (son)
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 (1866 in Gosforth)
England and Wales Census, 1871 (RG10 5263/54 6)
England and Wales Census, 1881 (RG11 5197/76
England and Wales Census, 1891 (RG12 4322/71 14)

Sorry if the birth record isn't cited in the best way, but I never quite figured out what Ancestry was actually representing with that collection.

Catherine Tyson
England and Wales Census, 1871 (RG10 5263/54 6)

An interesting possible connection I've noticed is that Catherine Elmes seems to bequeath something to members of a Bell family; Henry (son), if I have the right person in 1881 and 1891, was a boarder with a Bell family.

The other two children, Hannah and James, have their births and deaths in the GRO, but I'm not sure of the details. I do have James Tyson's birth certificate from the GRO:

6th June 1873, Church Lane Egremont | James | Boy | Henry Tyson | Selina Tyson, formerly Rowe | Farm labourer | + The mark of Selina Tyson, mother, Church Lane Egremont | 9th July 1873 | John Walter Registrar

I'm not sure his death certificate will provide much extra information, and haven't ordered a digital image of it (yet), but it's in the GRO for the next quarter of the same year. Hannah was born in 1868 and died in 1869.

As a post-script, if anyone is interested in chasing up Henry's father, I am mostly (tentatively) convinced by a marriage between a Henry Tyson and Elizabeth Benson in St James, Whitehaven, on 2 Sep 1815, but have not found the corresponding birth certificate.