Am I on the right thinking here.

[Essnell]

Hi Everyone.  I have looked into those two sites and name links and there was some very interesting information there.
 It was Francis Frederick Murray again and the person he married  Diana [Dinah] Margaret Arden, with a marriage date of 1926.  This was in Portland Victoria Australia. 
One was not as useful as the other and that also had their daughter named with DOB etc plus her husband. 

That rang some more bells as his last name is in S-i-l's DNA.  I now have to retrace my path and find just where this name occurs in those lists. That might give me confirmation via the DNA as well as this other in a paper-trail. 

This is sooo good.  Essnell

[Essnell]

Hi everyone.  I have another question re DNA matches on this trail.

in this 7x7 cluster I have three people with the same last name.     A      B    and  C.   

A shares 239 cM  across9 segs     longest seg 83 cM   Unweighted DNA  239 cm

Grandfather : Edward M.   married Imelda  S.   Don't know Father.
suggested relationship  1C2R  or 1/2 1C1R


B shares 165 cM  across 7 segs Longest 60cM
Unweighted DNA 165 cM      matches to A above :  1C 2R or 1/2 1C1R   
However he is ? A's brother  2,736 cM across 50 cM   the longest is 181 cM. 

H is not showing up in A's listings as her brother 

 The third one  C  is to my S-i-l  as 2C1R  and to B 2C at 297cM     

Now edward has a brother John. could A and B  not have the same father  If theri fathers are brothers could that make them look like siblings. 

i don't know if I have explained this well enough, I hope i have.

I am just trying to get better DNA connections than i have back to Murray's

Essnell

[Biggles50]

@ 2736 cM they are full siblings, 100%.

To help, this is the DNA share results with my half Sister, 26% shared DNA: 1,817 cM across 33 segments

I have seen similar sibling and half sibling results when using Pro Tools and looking at Shared Matches.  The lack of trees and apparent activity suggest that they may not even be aware of each other, especially if all they were interested in is their ethnicity.

Conversely if one of them is aware of Shared DNA amounts that then may have answered their search for a missing sibling and that could result in them not including them in their online info.

DNA shares in the 200-400 range do have a lot of relationship possibilities and can be difficult to map into a feasible tree and the clue here is the unweighted figures which do indicate closer MRCA.  If you have an idea of any generational distances between these matches then that too may help narrow down the possibilities.

Hopefully the 2736 cM siblings have enough information to incorporate them into a tree together which in turn could show family breakdown or indeed potentially a baby being passed on for adoption and if this is the case a paper trail will show totally different families.  In these situations we trust the DNA rather than records.

[Essnell]

Hi Biggles 50.  Okay another win... I have now found the tree for the third party from the trio from the 7x7 cluster. 
Bit of a fluke finding it but it matches to what I already had. That was a generation out.  Still in the same family line. 
Ancestry has changed the relationship for A and B.  Now both siblings.  It was the sister that was missing the correct relationship. 
 I have been looking into more on Frederick and I now have a line from his daughters family. Plus I think I have one more possible link . It's a sideways step then back.  That's for checking once it gets daylight.   Nearly 12midnight here. 

Cheers. Essnell.

[David Nicoll]

Sounds like you are making great progress keep on it!

[Essnell]

Hi Everyone ,  Not been on here for a little while - I have been trying to find information on a possible grandfather to my S-i-l.   at this thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=894826.0

Hope that works. 

The person of interest  F.M.  is related to persons from the 7x7 cluster.  So to explain why I an interested in him.

  My best match is a girl TM.  as before  -she matches to S-I-L at 239 cM  across 9 segs     longest seg 83 cM   Unweighted DNA  239 cm
 Now on her attached tree which is pretty accurate,  she has her gr.parents as  BHM and LLB

BHM has a brother JSM   and their parents were SJM and HZS

SJM  was born 1900 , and he has 5 siblings  one of whom is  FM  born 1903  at Balranald / Moulamein near Swan Hill.

In 1921/22 FM was c 18yrs old.  living at Balranald, 

Now on the other side of this story, the DNA chase ends up at a girl called Mabel Rose Smith .  She has a son in 1922 in Footscray.  But she is from Mallam and Swan Hill.  She returns to Swan Hill and gives the child to her eldest Brother to rear.    This all fits with known stories which all seemed to make no sense before.  MRS is just 17yrs old in 1922.

Given place time and opportunity   -  which all align - could little Frank be Fred's child. There is other information connecting S-I-L's  DNA to the Rose side distinctly.  All her siblings etc are in the DNA match lists. 

The  main reason for this is the DNA ail back from TM to FM  via her tree.

The other thread has useful information about FM as well a some unprovable and possibly wrong ideas.

Comments, ideas and thoughts - Please.         

Essnell

[David Nicoll]

Esnelle,
 
  Hi, it sounds possible, but it is a bit hard to tell without building a tree ourselves. Have you tried putting all of this information into DNA Painter WATO tool? This tries to answer exactly the questions you are asking.
  It is also important to think about what are the impossible relationships between these people given whatever DNA they share. This may tell you as much as the match.

[Biggles50]

It all seems feasible.

239 cM is right there for a 1/2 1C1R if TM is a generation younger than your SIL.

So her GGF could be the mystery GF of your SIL.

An image of the possible tree would help.

It certainly looks like MRS’s offspring could be him.

Given that her siblings also show as DNA matches then if I presume that their cM levels puts themmat the right relationship position in the tree.

[Essnell]

Hi David   and   Biggles.

 David : I have not tried DNA painter. bit unsure of doing that  but I will try.   What do you mean by impossible relationships? 
Biggles: 
yes TM is a generation Younger than S-I-l. 

It looks like her GGF"s Brother is the mystery GF.   

On MRS"s side we have all her siblings and their some of their children all in the DNA listing so she is a definite. 
We also have a birth record for  a child by her in 1922.

Thanks again 
Essnell