Am I on the right thinking here.

[Essnell]

About 4 weeks ago I started to try to group S-I-L’s  match list  which was not making much sense.  As I said, Ancestry has divided the list into parent 1 and parent 2. 

I have been puzzelling over this division as Parent 1 appeared to be all on his mother’s line while Parent 2  looked to be connected to S-I-L’s grandmother’s connections.  That didn’t make a lot of sense. 

I tried listing out all of those on A3 sheets  - bigger page more info- 

I had that page lying on the desk and I happened to see that some of those names were in the big tree I had for the relatives of this person seeming to be   the grandmother. 

After colouring those out, I could see others  . 
1.  grandmother’s second marriage children   
These would all be half relatives  or should be - so they do not affect who S-I-L’s grandfather was.
2. grandmother’s  brother’s and sister’s family members 
3. a group with Kelly and O’Connell, O’Donnell 
4. a group with Moore  with 5 members

Looking at match lists for just two there is a group of 10, the same for both .

I think that the person of interest would be connected to group 3 and 4.

I have quite a bit of research on the Moore side so a doc similar to the Smith side may help.

Thanks for reading again 

Essnell

[David Nicoll]

It sounds like you are making good progress.
It can happen like that though, suddenly you see the pattern and things begin to make sense.
Sometime because of someone with little or not tree, but because of where they sit in the mesh of matches.

Happy Hunting

[Essnell]

Hi... It's been a few days since I had any news..... 
So first I have been able to break up this parent two match list into several parts.  They all relate to the male side which includes the gr. mother's family and her second marriage family. 

It still does not point to whom we are looking for. 

There is one group I am concentrating on which after running the cluster tool on ancestry ....yes it finally worked. This group form one cluster 7x7 individuals.

currently mapping those to see how and who matches to whom within the group and how often. Then who has the least matches and who the most and to whom. 

I have also found a contact in the area from whence these people came and the outcome is that we both are  looking at this same group . This is where our quarry comes from. and one line possibly in particular.  Slow progress but it is getting some sort of indication of where we need to keep digging. 

hunting well ...... Cheers     Essnell

[David Nicoll]

Good progress, keep it going, quiet applause from this corner.

[Essnell]

Hi everyone,   
Thank you for all suggestions.
   So update:   I have done the colour coding for most matches. These form an  integrated group all on the Mother’s side.
 I have made a comprehensive pedigree document for this Mother’s line. 
I have also done similar for the man she eventually married and I have followed the children from that union.  [Where not private which is almost all]  These all appear on the DNA match list for my Son-in-law and they would because they are connected to Mother.
 There are 5 of them
L M N O P. 

L  Is female         ½ cousin                               

M is male                                                               
 
N is male          1c1r or ½ 1c   638cM   segs       

O is male                                                               
 
P is male                                                               

then K   is male 1C2R or  ½ 1C1R    199cM  Segs.           
K has to be the son of one of the above men. 

I know their names as I have two sources listing them.   
 No1. They are on Mabel’s grave
  [and that was not erected till 1995 by another family member. She is  connected to P]

No 2.   it’s on a Geneanet family account for someone I have no way of connecting but     that also has the children of the stepmother .

That is as far as records allow me to search.

I have also been able to run pro tools  cluster on the s-i-l’s matches on ancestry.  I have isolated two groups.  Neither are big.  The first has 7members. I have looked at those and tried to work out what the cM indicates.  One thing is that they all appear to be related in one way or another.  But this 7x7 group has grey connections to persons from the groups directly above and below.  This looks like overlap – would that be correct.  I do not have that on my own clusters.
The second is smaller with 4 members  which give a block 4x4 and has similar grey connections above and below. 
7x7 cM and relationships

cM values for 7x7 cluster
 A.   268cM   14 segs  longest 83cm; 
 B. 193 cM 7 segs   longest 51cM; 
 C   265 cM  12 segs longest  60cM; 
 D   163cM  6 segs  longest 57cM;   
 E   161cM 10 segs   longest 44 cM ;
F    132 cM  4 segs  longest 98cM;       
 G   130 cM 10 segs.  longest 25cM
  Hope some of the above makes sense.  I have included the longest segs as I have read that this is important information.   

hope you can make some sense of all above and thanks again for reading . 

Essnell.

[Biggles50]

Most excellent.

https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/Matches-by-Cluster?language=en_US

This may help in understanding the Grey’s, it explains it far better than I can.

The DNA Sci website has useful info.

https://dna-sci.com/

It also has a DNA Segment tool, I use this in addition to DNA Painter’s Shared tool to look at relationship predictors.

The clusters will give you a good basis to work with but do not discount the Grey’s as they may include useful clues, it is just that they share less than 20cM which Pro Tools uses as a sort of cut off.

Overlaps to my way of processing can be very useful as the “first port of call” in ones research.

Clustering can lead to selecting the most likely DNA Match to use as the Home Person in the research, they may or may not be the one with the most shared DNA, it is the closeness of their relationship with the others in the cluster that may lead to results in a more time efficient manner.

Hopefully a Pro Tools develops there will be more Gedmatch like tools available which will help narrow down relationships.

[Essnell]

Hi Biggles,  been reading .. all very interesting 

Think I might try this # segs tool if I can find it.  But first I am about to gather up the names etc of all the grey squares on the cluster image.  quite a few names. this should be interesting. 

Thanks for those links.   

Essnell.

[Essnell]

Hello  everyone..

I have done two things .   Got the grey squares details and not what was expected.  All are well above 20 cM. 
    I picked out all those with direct relationships                such as 1C1R  etc.  I have three groups - again.   all kown

Matches to the grandmother's family 3.  All cousins 1C1rR,   2C , 2C 1R .
Matches to s-i-l' mother's family 3.    various.   1c or  1/2 Aunt,    2C,    2C1R   all known.

Third group  4  I cant see a parent, grandparent or gr grandparent ..But they all march each other somewhere somehow.    so i believe these are the ones to TRY to investigate and are related to Grandfather.   They are all members of the 7x7 cluster. 

I think I also should see if there is any connection to others further above or below on the Cluster chart. 

I also did a diagram showing family lines  and at great grandparent level 1 have 3 couples with known members back to s-i-l.  The only one missing is for the male side of father.   

Essnell

[David Nicoll]

Sounds like you are making good progress!