Author Topic: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London  (Read 6210 times)

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 26 July 25 18:45 BST (UK) »
Thank you! No mention of this nobleman's name?

And what about this page of the book JOHANN HEINRICH MERCK Briefwechsel Vol 1?

Offline Axonais

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I have not found this page in the said book on internet. Unfortunately not all pages are available. The information is quite interesting. On 20 July 25 19:14 BST (UK) PatLac posted this site: https://www.openarchieven.nl/rhe:BED0D8E2-F3AD-4C46-A33A-6E12BC482A8F/en. It is about this deed: https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mizig=46&miadt=48&miaet=54&micode=NTI-10210-1683&minr=3581134&miview=ldt. It is a procuration dated 11 Oct. 1786 in which Carolina Victoire Ravanel empowers Mr Bouchet de Preville, privy councillor to His Serene Highness the Prince of Zweibrücken, living in Zweibrücken, to represent her as joint heiress of her paternal aunt Mrs Marianne Fisees née Ravanel, who died recently in Darmstadt. As far as I can see the procuration mentioned on p. 341 and the one of 11 Oct. 1786 are the same. See also my reply 20 July 25 20:21 BST (UK).

I found the following in the said book (p. 315).  As I said I don’t know the full text yet, but in note 1 we read in German “the sender of the letter is a niece of the governess Ravanel; … Her husband was dead already in 1774; ...” It may well be that this niece is our Caroline Victoire Ravanel …

Offline PatLac

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I think they have confused the two nieces, but of course I can be wrong. I wish I had access to this book!

"Eine weitere Nichte, C. Reynier in Lausanne, betraute am 23. September 1786 Merck mit der Nachlaßregelung ihrer Tante Fises, die von der Tante Katharina (»der« Ravanel) ein Etui geerbt habe; vgl. Brief 85 2. - ; vgl. von d'Epreville, 18. Nov. 1786;vgl. Brief 864."

"Another niece, C. Reynier in Lausanne, entrusted Merck on 23 September 1786 with the estate of her aunt Fises, who had inherited a case from her aunt Catherine ("the" Ravanel); cf. Letter 85 2. - ; cf. von d'Epreville, 18 November 1786; cf. Letter 864"

"Madame Reynier und der Zweibrücker Kabi-nettsekretär d'Epreville betrauen ihn mit der verwickelten Testaments-vollstreckung der Schwestern Ravanel (Briefe 852, 864)"

"Madame Reynier and the Zweibrücken cabinet secretary d'Epreville entrust him with the complicated execution of the Ravanel sisters' will (Letters 852, 864)"

C. Reynier in Lausanne was Caroline Reynier nee Chapuis whose husband died in 1773. I think they are referring to her when they say 'their husband was already dead in 1774'. I have the partial image of that page but it's too big to attach here. Anyway, you can find it on Google Books.

The page I have attached in the previous post (page 341), which is not available on Google Books, is definitely referring to the 'Eine weitere unverheiratete Nichte lebte in Holland', who is mentioned by Joseph "The attached power of attorney, drawn up in Dutch, tells me that in the place she lives, no one understands French or German",  so she couldn't be the one who lost her husband, because she was single. And they couldn't possible know that her husband was already dead in 1774 because they knew nothing about her.

"Eine weitere Nichte, C. Reynier in Lausanne, betraute am 23. September 1786 Merck mit der Nachlaßregelung ihrer Tante Fises, die von der Tante Katharina (»der« Ravanel) ein Etui geerbt habe; vgl. Brief 8, 2. - Eine weitere unverheiratete Nichte lebte in Holland; vgl. von d'Epreville, 18. Nov. 1786; vgl. Brief 864."

"Another niece, C. Reynier in Lausanne, entrusted Merck with the estate of her aunt Fises on September 23, 1786, who had inherited a case from her aunt Catherine ("the" Ravanel); see Letter 8, 2. Another unmarried niece lived in Holland; see von d'Epreville, November 18, 1786; see Letter 864."

'124 Reynier, C., née Ravanel, from Lausanne, niece of Margarethe Katharina Ravanel 26, 140, 864, 894 Reynier, Doctor 24 Reynier(+ 1773), name and writings index 411."

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 29 July 25 16:19 BST (UK) »
"Any further information on Mrs Rinsby and her relations with the Cholmley and Goulton families will be very welcome"

George Meltcafe later Marwood, Canon of Chichester (where Mrs Rinsby was buried), had a brother William who was married to Mary Goulton, the sister of Dorothy Smelt's husband, Thomas Goulton.

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/mm4ae/metcalfe02.php

https://www.seekingmyroots.com/members/files/G002665.pdf


Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 13 September 25 16:20 BST (UK) »
Axonais, hope you're still around.

Do you know who was François Antoine Ravanel?

He signed as the godfather of Sara Louise Ravanel's grandson, Jean Louis François Antoine Reynier (Regnier), in 1762 in Lausanne.

Sara Louise was Eugenie's aunt.

Register on page 128.

https://davel-vd.ch/uploads/r/null/3/c/6/3c603d77682594c17944e5789c0a35a4826c21bd8f9213bf4f571b79a280190e/CH-ACV_RN-EB-71-7.pdf

Offline Axonais

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 14 September 25 15:50 BST (UK) »
Good to hear from you again and that you are still interested in the Ravanel complex. No, I have no information on François Antoine Ravanel, the godfather of Jean Louis François Antoine Reynier.

You certainly will know already that Sara Louise Chappius [née Ravanel] was the grandmother of the baptized child and that Antoinette Hofman [née Ravanel] was his great-aunt. I don’t know yet who was Jean Pierre Regnier. Was he his grandfather? It may be, but I am not sure, that Francois Antoine Ravanel was the father of Sara Louise Chappius [née Ravanel] and Antoinette Hofman [née Ravanel]. I jotted down without source that this father died on 9 March 1776.

He was married to a Marie Ravanel, née ??, who was the godmother of Marianne, daughter of François Guillaume Ravanel and Jeanneton (=Johanna Franziska) Roche, baptized in Zweibrücken 6 Jan. 1746.

Probably you will also know already that Jean Louis Ebénezer Reynier (1771-1814) était un général français sous Napoléon: https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/fr/articles/024197/2010-08-27/

Do you know where this Ravanel family came from? I couldn’t find the place of origin.

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 14 September 25 20:28 BST (UK) »
Great to hear from you!

Jean Pierre Reynier was the father of of Jean François who married Caroline Chapuis (the parents of this child). He was born in 1702 in Vevey.

I wonder if the godfather François Antoine Ravanel is Sara Louise's father...  maybe he would be too old in 1762? Sara was born in 1701. Would it be odd if he was her brother, considering that another brother (Eugenie's father) was also a François, although the middle name was Guillaume?

Regarding the family's origins...

I know about a Guillaume Ravanel who was a notary in Lausanne in the 1400s-1500s and his wife Binfa (or Bynfa) Trolliet (her brother, Guillaume Trolliet, was also a notary in Lausanne).

They had at least one son named Guillaume and another one who was a Franciscan monk (Cordelier), Frére Jean Ravanel, who died of black plague in the Saint Françoise Couvent in Savigny in 1532. (Bynfa's father was Benoït Trolliet, of Savigny).

https://archive.org/details/zeitschweizkirchen17/page/286/mode/2up?q=ravanel

No mention of Ravanel in Lausanne in the 1600s, so maybe they moved to Morges or other nearby place.

I have tracked down another Ravanel in Lausanne, Etienne François Ravanel, who was a bookseller associate of Victor Durand (Durand, Ravanel et Compagnie), between 1794 and 1796.

Their story is fascinating, but when I finally found Etienne's birth record it turned out that he was the illegimate son of François Ravanel with the widow Catherine Poterat. He lived in Grandson where Etienne was born in 1757, but he was actually from Rances and his family members were all Ravenel, apparently he changed his surname to Ravanel when he moved to Grandson.

Both Etienne and Victor were arrested for political reasons, they were patriots (a potentially interesting connection to Wolff and Deken), lots of info on Victor Durand, see this book - Books Without Borders in Enlightenment Europe: French Cosmopolitanism and German Literary Markets.

Etienne was arrested in Strasbourg in 1799, but I couldn't find anything else after this date.

https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc=y&hl=fr&id=2TRDAAAAcAAJ&q=ravanel#v=snippet&q=ravanel&f=false

I'm browsing the Archives Cantonales Vaudoises but it isn't easy to read the documents and I have found some issues with the surname index at the end of each file, some have been wrongly transcribed and Ravanel wasn't a common surname.

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 18 September 25 14:52 BST (UK) »
I was wondering if instead of Morges, the origin of the Ravanel family could be Morge?

"The Morge, also called Morge de Saint-Gingolph, is a river in the Alps. Its course marks the border between France and Switzerland, between the canton of Valais and Haute-Savoie, southeast of Lake Geneva."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morge_(Lake_Geneva)

3 Ravanel at BEZIRK LEUK (Loèche):

Der Bezirk bildete im Mittelalter eine einzige Pfarrei.
SALGESCH

Ysabella Ravanel, Bazarodus Ravanel, Petrus Ravanel.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/18027/files/TA_640.pdf