Author Topic: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London  (Read 851 times)

Offline PatLac

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Thank you jonwarm  ;D

I wonder why it took so long to contact her sister if she died in 1806-7?

Offline aghadowey

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From what I understood, the sister's husband was the one making a claim around 1815. Perhaps Eugenie was left an inheritance, or share of one, shortly before that date but it wasn't known right away that she had already died.
Wondering if Eugenie could have been a governess in the Smelt household which might explain why she was apparently living with Ann Smelt Cholmley when she died.
I did find this recent mention-
https://maritamathijsen.wordpress.com/2025/03/22/naar-trevoux/
Might be worth getting in touch with her.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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From what I understood, the sister's husband was the one making a claim around 1815. Perhaps Eugenie was left an inheritance, or share of one, shortly before that date but it wasn't known right away that she had already died.
Wondering if Eugenie could have been a governess in the Smelt household which might explain why she was apparently living with Ann Smelt Cholmley when she died.
I did find this recent mention-
https://maritamathijsen.wordpress.com/2025/03/22/naar-trevoux/
Might be worth getting in touch with her.

As I read it the solicitor Mr Champ of Chichester was asking Mde de Preville, last known in Mannheim, if she was living, or if not her nearest relatives, to contact him about a legacy in Eugenie's will.

If you think this was in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars, so contact with  European relatives or knowledge of their current whereabouts might have been a bit challenging

Offline PatLac

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Marie was alive, she died 19 July 1836 in Mannheim. She and her husband Joseph were known as von Preville, but his name has many variations.

Dépréville (d'Epreville, de Breville), Joseph,
Councillor (Government of Palatinate-Zweibrücken, glk
Palatinate).

https://www.bayerischer-staatsrat.de/pdf/str1_1799.pdf


Online Axonais

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The widow Rinsby née Ravanel came from a french speaking Ravanel family that had a very good relationship with the court in Zweibrücken and with other princely or ducal courts around in the 18th century. Some female membres served as governess or educators to the reigning families. Our Mrs Rinsby was a governess as well. She served as such in the Netherlands in 1784-1787. In 1788 she came to Trévoux, now département de l’Ain, near Lyon in France. In 1790, in Trévoux, she is mentioned in the will of two well known Dutch female writers as ‘dame Caroline Victoire Ravanel veuve de M. Charles Ferdinand Rinsby decedé capitaine de vaisseau au service de la republique d’Hollande’. Her Christian names differ in the various sources: Caroline Victoire, Caroline Frédérique and Eugenie Caroline Theodore (Theodora). The only place where the name of her deceased husband is given is in this will. However a ships-captain named Rinsby can nowhere be found in Dutch archives. As PatLac observed the surname of Rinsby is special and rather unique.

I thank jonwarrn for the copies of the advertisement in the Sussex Advertiser. Much appreciated! The names of Jacques Champ and Jean Clark can be found in the probate record of Mrs Rinsby’s will as well.

For good order’s sake I mention that Leonard Smelt, the father of Mrs. Cholmley and Mrs. Goulton, became Deputy Ranger of Richmond Park in about 1781. That may explain why Mrs. Rinsby died in Lowerhill near Richmond. He was an intimate to king George III and queen Charlotte. See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Smelt_(British_Army_officer)

I do not now the English law on burials in the beginning of the 19th century, but I can imagine that for a burial a permission from the local authorities was obligatory. Was that perhaps the case for Richmond and were these permissions registered ?

I do agree that Mrs. Rinsby most probably was in the household of Leonard Smelt as a governess of lady-companion.

Many thanks to PatLac for the German book on the Bayerische Staatsrat. Very informative.

Offline PatLac

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Thank you for the additional information, Axonais!

I'm not in the UK so maybe I'm wrong but I understand that the death of a foreign person in England didn't have to be registered and maybe the Smelt Cholmley family had their own mausoleum on their estate?

By the way, have you managed to find where exactly was "Lowerhill, near Richmond"?

Ann Jessie Cholmley's address on 17 November 1805 was in Marylebone.

(f) Mrs. Ann Jessie Cholmley, 61 Wimpole Street, to Mrs. Mary Courtney, Beverley: family news. 17 November 1805

https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/b92d89ad-0f74-30d8-a811-e066a3c5b95a?component=2280c538-f712-33ff-a5cd-b27bb196c333

You said the Ravanel family was from Switzerland. Do you think this could be Eugenie's sister?

"For example, at the Hesse-Darmstadt court alone, there was a succession of such Swiss governesses. Marianne (or Marguerite) Ravanel, born in Morges, was governess to Princess Caroline of Hesse-Darmstadt’s daughter Amalie (1754-1832)"

https://books.openedition.org/pus/36456?lang=en

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 16 July 25 16:50 BST (UK) »
2. 1758–1805: Pharmaceuticals and Money Lending: The Pillars of the Merck Business during the Age of Enlightenment
S. 60-82
„... the court Margarethe Katharina Ravanel engaged her as a French tutor for the princesses of ...” „... Plätzer, Mademoiselle Ravanelle, Schleiermacher, Hesse’s daughter, G. R. Klippstein, Dr. Allemer, Privy ...”

https://www.beck-elibrary.de/en/10.17104/9783406700408/merck?q=ravanel&page=1

Offline PatLac

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Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 16 July 25 19:04 BST (UK) »

You said the Ravanel family was from Switzerland. Do you think this could be Eugenie's sister?

"For example, at the Hesse-Darmstadt court alone, there was a succession of such Swiss governesses. Marianne (or Marguerite) Ravanel, born in Morges, was governess to Princess Caroline of Hesse-Darmstadt’s daughter Amalie (1754-1832)"

https://books.openedition.org/pus/36456?lang=en

Her aunt!

Offline PatLac

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