Spalden/Spalding Kirkliston

[Genie24]

I am hoping someone can help with some apparent missing Kirkliston records for Spalden/Spalding/Spaulden.

I recently discovered 2 DNA matches, sisters, who apparently share my great x 5 grandmother Alison Bryce born 1758 Kirkliston. Alison Bryce gave birth to my great x 4 grandfather, Thomas Bryce, illegitimately and he was  baptised on the 19th June 1781 in West Calder. 3 years later, she married James Spalden, on the 5th August 1784 in Kirkliston. They had at least 3 children - John Spalden,  baptised  5th June 1785 Kirkliston, William  20th July 1788 Kirkliston (recorded as Spadie)  and Margaret 1st October 1797 Kirkliston. I am aware that there is a big gap between William and Margaret - over 9 years, but they are the only ones I can find so they are confirmed children of James and Alison.

My matches apparently descend from the eldest son, John Spalden 1785 and his wife Agnes Johnston via daughter Christina Spalding 1822. Her date of birth is recorded as 18th February 1822 in Kirkliston but this was taken from her death certificate in Milwaukee and I am not sure if that is accurate. Christina married John Campbell born 1822, Falkirk and they migrated to Milwaukee in 1851

I have trawled through this suggested path and it all adds up perfectly. However, I cannot verify the last step. I cannot find the documentary evidence to 100% prove that Christina Spalding was the daughter of John Spalden 1785 who is the confirmed son of my great x 4 grandmother. I realise that this is a challenge.

John Spalden 1784 apparently married Agnes Johnston and she is listed as the mother of all the children on online trees but I cannot find any evidence of their marriage or baptisms of any of their children. I can only assume that there are huge gaps in the Kirkliston records.

This family did exist as they appear on the 1841 census living in ' detached house' in Kirkliston. John was a Labourer living with wife, Agnes and children - Eahson Spaldin 25 (Alison?), Margaret Spalding 25, Christen Spalding 15, David Spalding 10, Agnes Spalding 7 and Petter (Peter) 4 and Christos? Spalding aged 2 months. The census does not list if they are children or grandchildren.

Now the Christen Spalding, who I assumed was the Christina Spalding in question is recorded as being born in 1826 on the census, not 1822 but I am aware that the ages on the 1841 are not accurate. But, it cannot be her as Christina apparently married John Campbell on the 22nd May 1841 in Kirkliston and the 1841 Scottish census was taken on the 6th June. So, surely, she would appear on the 1841 census with her husband?

A possible explanation for this could be that Christina was a daughter of John Spalden from a previous marriage. Her death certificate records her mother as Christina Spalding.This could either be fact or pure conjecture by her family at the time of her death.

I also suspect that the Margaret Spalding on this census is not their daughter but the daughter of John Spalding's brother, William Spalding 1788 married to Helen Weston. Both his birth and death certificates prove his mother was Alison Bryce.

Does anyone know of anywhere else I can search for Kirkliston records other than Scotland's People, Ancestry, familysearch.org, Find My Past etc?

[Forfarian]

Does anyone know of anywhere else I can search for Kirkliston records other than Scotland's People, Ancestry, familysearch.org, Find My Past etc?

Almost all of the information on Ancestry, FamilySearch, FindMyPast etc etc is indexed or transcribed from the originals at Scotland's People. The exception is information from other sources, such as trees submitted by other people, which cannot be trusted unless they contain a reliable source citation, such as a family bible.

See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

All the surviving records of the Church of Scotland and Roman Catholic Church in Scotland are on SP, along with the bulk of the surviving records of the various dissenting churches in Scotland.

What is not available on SP is the records of a tiny handful of other denominations such as Episcopalian, Congregational, Baptist, Methodist etc and any records of non-Christian religious groups. In practical terms, however, almost no such records survive from before 1800.

The long and short of it is that if it isn't on SP, you are very unlikely to find it anywhere else, and certainly not if the people you are interested in were adherents of the Church of Scotland.

The Statistical Account of Kirkliston (1794) does not mention any other denomination being present in the parish of Kirkliston. The New Statistical Account (1845) mentions a great increase of population attributed to an influx of Irish labourers building the Union Canal in 1818-1822, but states that there are no Dissenting or Seceder Chapels in the parish. The inference to be drawn from this is that the entire churchgoing population of Kirkliston in the late 18th century adhered to the Church of Scotland. Therefore I would say that it is 99.9% probable that there are indeed significant gaps in the Kirkliston records and that your missing Spaldings' baptism records, if the ever existed, have not survived.

Now the Christen Spalding, who I assumed was the Christina Spalding in question is recorded as being born in 1826 on the census, not 1822

. No, she isn't. The original census never gives a year of birth. It tells you the age the person claimed to be on census day.

In 1841, however, adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so someone recorded as 15 could be any age from 15 to 19, and, because the census was taken on the night of 7 June 1841, and assuming their age is accurate within those parameters, they could have been born any time from 8 June 1820 to 7 June 1826. So Christen's age is probably accurate, but not precise.

But, it cannot be her as Christina apparently married John Campbell on the 22nd May 1841 in Kirkliston and the 1841 Scottish census was taken on the 6th June. So, surely, she would appear on the 1841 census with her husband?

The date of marriage in the parish register is likely to be the date on which the first proclamation of banns was recorded, rather than the date of the actual wedding. Sometimes the register also gives the date of the wedding, but not always. Have you looked at the original record? Whatt does it tell you?

[Genie24]

Thank you so much for your very informative response. I very much appreciate it. I think it is just as I feared and the records I am searching for are simply missing. There are other missing records in that part of my tree. Some are there and some not.

I do know about the rounding down of ages on the 1841 census. I don't understand why they did that.  I simply deduced her date of birth from her age given on the schedule but I do appreciate it could be way out.

What I didn't consider is that the date of marriage I have, could be the first date of proclamation so that they may have married after the census. That does tie in with another family tree which claims that Christina's husband, John Campbell was living as a single man. That needs investigating. I haven't viewed the actual marriage entry so I will try to do that.

What I do know is that Alison, her siblings and Alison's children's baptisms are all included in the Church of Scotland records sets. I don't know anything at all about the Spalden/Spaldings or their religious beliefs but maybe this is why Christina and John's children are missing.

[Genie24]

Well it appears that the  marriage date was actually 11th June 1841 which is 5 days after the census. I have just  noticed that date in a couple of other trees but they had no supporting evidence. I had also previously  made a note in my tree referring to a post from an Ancestry member writing about the life of John Campbell and the date of marriage in that story, the marriage date was 11th June. So that explains that they were not married at the time of the census.