Author Topic: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)  (Read 11219 times)

Offline RHP485

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 July 25 12:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Neil1961

I fully agree with you about who Thomas's father and grandparents were!
Grandparents were Thomas & Isabel Pyle married in 1764. Their son Thomas Pyle was born in 1783 which I believe is the father of Thomas born in 1831 and was murdered at Durham in 1882.
However another distant member of the family says his father was Thomas Pile/Pyle born in July 1787 and his grandmother was Ann Stafford/Salford born 1755. Grandfather was possibly Richard Reed Hodgson born 1748.
So I am finding it hard to confirm which of us has the correct information but I agree with you and your information!
Any suggestions to decide who is right Neil1961?

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 10 July 25 23:18 BST (UK) »
Have you looked at the census and age at death.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 July 25 03:28 BST (UK) »
FindMyPast burials (transcript only)
Thomas Pyle, buried 10 Jan 1791, St Bartholomew, Newbiggin by the Sea - no age recorded. FreeReg also has a transcript - again no age recorded.

Possible candidates are the Thomas Pyle who married Isabel 1764 at Newbiggin by the Sea and the Thomas Pyle baptised 1783, Woodhorn.

Thomas Pyle and Isabel Pearson married 16 May 1764 Newbiggin by the Sea. An Isabella Pyle, age 93, was buried 7 Aug 1832, St Bartholomew, Newbiggin by the Sea. The only Thomas Pyle burial, Newbiggin by the Sea, I can see that would "fit" Isabel's husband is the 1791 death leaving Thomas Jnr still in the frame for the Thomas that married Harriet.

Checked the Durham Wills Project for a possible will for Thomas Snr. but drew a blank.

Checked for a Newbiggin by the Sea/Woodhorn marriage for a Thomas Pyle/Pile from 1800-1840 but drew a blank.


 

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 July 25 09:12 BST (UK) »
Grandparents were Thomas & Isabel Pyle married in 1764. Their son Thomas Pyle was born in 1783 which I believe is the father of Thomas born in 1831 and was murdered at Durham in 1882.

I think there may be a problem with this idea.

There are a couple of later baptisms at Newbiggin by the Sea to a Thomas Pyle and his wife Frances.
Mary, 9 January 1816
Father a Seaman
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684db2bd86557455d47e80ef

Thomas, 11 May 1817
Father a Master Mariner
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684db2bd86557455d47e812d

But then there is a baptism of a Thomas Pyle, 6 April 1818, at Earsdon. Parents Thomas and Frances.
Abode South Blyth
Father a Mariner
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684d4f5e86557455d4572378

Did Thomas 1 die, or is it the same child? :-\

Anyway, followed at Earsdon by the baptisms of twins, 3 January 1820
Isabella
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684d4f6a86557455d4572a01

and John
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684d4f6b86557455d4572a08

Again, abode South Blyth
Father Thomas a Master Mariner

Isabella seems to have died in infancy and buried at South Shields, 25 April 1821.
Abode Spring Lane
Age 12 21 months
Image of BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WKS-J5F

Later that year in South Shields, 28 November1821
Baptism of Frances, daughter of Thomas + Frances Pyle.
Father a Master Mariner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WKS-PXK

Baptism at South Shields, 1 May 1825, of son Robert
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WKS-KBG

There is also a burial there, 12 July 1829, of a Thomas Pyle, age 12.
Abode North Shields
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67R7-4Z4


Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #13 on: Friday 11 July 25 09:16 BST (UK) »
To continue, we have probate records
Thomas PYLE, mariner, of South Shields in the Chapelry of Saint Hild in the County of Durham [South Shields, County Durham].
Date of death 17 March 1825

Date of probate 8 March 1838
Renunciation,  (DPR/I/3/1838/A29/2-3)
Renunciation of Frances Pyle, relict, 26 February 1838
Election of guardian, 26 February 1838
Administration bond, penal sum £100, 8 March 1838

Well, the guardian/administrator is Thomas Hutchinson Pyle of Earsdon, Surgeon.
Pages of it starting here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DB1W-8ZZ

THP was a cousin of the surviving children named, who are minors.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DC8X-LN

Also on 8 March 1838
William PYLE, master mariner, of South Shields in the chapelry of Saint Hild in the county of Durham (South Shields, County Durham)

Date of probate 26 February 1813
Original will here. Includes his mother Isabella Pyle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC7R-5X

Probate regranted on 8 March 1838, with will annexed
Will bond, penal sum £3,000, 8 March 1838
Administration granted to Thomas Hutchinson Pyle, the son and administrator of John Pyle, deceased, the brother and one of the residuary legatees; the sole executor having died without completing administration.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XS3-LBS

And here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DC8F-Z9

Also on 8 March 1838, Thomas Hutchinson Pyle has an administration granted for his father John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DC8F-SB

John PYLE, mariner, of North Shields in the parish of Tynemouth in the County of Northumberland [North Shields, Northumberland].
Date of death March 1818
Date of probate 8 March 1838
Pyle died at sea.
Administration bond, penal sum £100, 8 March 1838
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DB1W-8ZT

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 July 25 09:22 BST (UK) »
Baptism of Thomas Hutchinson Pyle at Tynemouth, 20 February 1805
Father John, mother Sarah (nee Hutchinson)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYH6-M8R

Image of BT here
2nd son of John Pyle of North Shields, Master Mariner, Native of Woodhorn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZ7S-CL2

Add in FreeReg transcription
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684ddc3386557455d48fa52c

Offline RHP485

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #15 on: Friday 11 July 25 11:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Jonwrrn

Many thanks for your thoughts on this issue!

As I was saying in my last reply to Neale1961 the information that he gave me convinced that my information is right and my other distant relative is wrong.

The other relative and I agree the mother of Thomas Pyle born 1831 was Harriet (Kirtley) Pyle.

However I believe, like Neale1961, that his father was Thomas Pyle christened in Jan 1783 in Woodhorn Northumberland. From that his grandparents were Thomas Pyle and Isabel (Pearson) Pyle married in 1764 Newbiggin by the Sea.

The other relative is convinced that his father was Thomas (Pile) Pyle born in 1787 in Houghton le Spring. From this they believe his grandmother was Ann Stafford/Salford born in 1755 and his grandfather was probably Richard Reed Hodgson born 1748.

So I was trying to confirm if anyone could confirm which of us is correct Jonwrrn.

Thanks!

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #16 on: Friday 11 July 25 12:18 BST (UK) »
Hi there
I am not convinced that your Thomas is the one who was from Newbiggin. Because it looks to me that the family were mariners, and the three administrations taken out in 1838 by Thomas Hutchinson Pyle were for three brothers, John, William and Thomas, who could be the ones baptised in Woodhorn and Newbiggin. In William's will he does name his mother as Isabella (who would have still been alive when his will was proved in 1813)

As to the Thomas baptised at Houghton in 1787, I haven't looked at him but we know your chap was a not born county in the 1841 census, and his age on death in 1850 suggests that he was older.

Are there any alternatives?  :-\
Durham Records Online does index a Thomas Pile baptised in Northumberland in 1781.
It seems that freereg has him as Pole. The baptism was at Newburn, 9 September 1781. Parents William and Elizabeth. Living at Newbottle.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/60e41e87f493fd01bb9b20ab

There are no other Pole baptisms there around the time, there are records in Newburn for Pile, Powell, and later Peile, and similar. Not sure what to make of it really.

Offline RHP485

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Re: Thomas Pyle (Father & Grandparents)
« Reply #17 on: Friday 11 July 25 13:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Jonwrrn

I can see without doubt the difficulties people can experience when do their family trees!! It amazes me how some people can go back when Adam was born (Lol) without making any mistakes!

The Thomas Pyle born in 1831 was my great great grandfather who was murdered in Durham in April 1882.

I know, similar to the other relative, that his mother was Harriet (Kirtley) Pyle born in Oct 1794 in Scotland and died in 1872. She was married to a Thomas Pyle on 5th July 1829 at
Bishopwearmouth.

The problem is who was the Thomas Pyle that she married which will then also determine who his parents and the Thomas Pyle, murdered at Durham, grandparents were!

My other family member believes the Thomas who married Harriet Kirtley in 1829 was Thomas Pile/Pyle born in Houghton le Spring on 23 July 1787 at Bishopwearmouth. He died in 1848. His mother is said to be Ann Stafford/Salford born in 1755 in Northumberland who died in 1820 and married a Richard Reed Hodgson on 2nd December 1788.

Like my other relative I also have always believed that my great great grandfather Thomas Pyle born in 1832 and died in 1882 mother was Harriet (Kirtley) born in Scotland in 1794.

Everthing I found at the time and recently here with Neale1961 was that his father was Thomas Pyle born in 1783 in Woodhorn Northumberland who died in 1850. I believed that he was the Thomas Pyle who married Harriet Kirtley on 15th July 1829 in Bishopwearmouth!

I believe that that Thomas Pyles parents were Thomas and Isabel (Pearson) Pyle married on 16th May in 1764 in Newbiggin by the sea.

So thats where we have the confliction where we have no idea which of us is correct but we honestly believe one of us has the right information of who Harriet Kirtley in July 1829 and who were that Thomas's parents. This would have been the father and grandparents of Thomas Pyle, murdered in Durham 1882,

I am just lost now of what to do next!

Thank you!