1848 TWISS Birth Certificate. Where in Ashton-in-Makerfield???

[Ladyhawk]

I do have a Thomas TWIST who is currently in my tree through marriage alone. He married Ellen BAINES (BANE) in 1849. If Thomas and Ellen had sons in the first years of their marriage, they'd have been old enough to be in Wood Pit in 1878. I have next to nothing on Thomas and Ellen TWIST at the moment. I need to pin this couple down and find out what happened to them after their marriage. Ellen BAINES is a TWISS descendant btw.

I've just found Ellen and Thomas living at Stone Row in 1851. I'm wondering if Ellen died and then Thomas remarried? More digging...

Not sure if this is related to your Thomas & Ellen TWIST or not surname transcribed as SWIST on Anc*y

1861c
Piece   2779
Folio   85
Page number   4
Thomas 37 Head Parr, Lancashire  coal miner
Ellen 34 Wife
William 15 Son
Mary Ann 8 Daughter
Thomas 4 Son
All others born Abram, Lancashire

Is this the birth entry for Thomas?

TWIST, THOMAS       mmn BAINES 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 117
   

[Rowan Tree]

I'm still trying to piece this together but, I've got the following marriages:

10th September 1849. St. Thomas (Eccleston), Prescot
Thomas TWIST, 21, bachelor, miner, Windle, William TWIST, miner
Ellen BANE, 22, spinster, Windle, William BANE, miner
Married by banns
Witnessed by John BANE and Jane TWIST

17th March 1856. St. Elphin, Warrington
Thomas TWISS, 26, widower, labourer, Bold St, William TWISS, deceased
Jane SPENCER, 21, spinster, Bold St, Edward SPENCER, labourer
Married by banns
Witnessed by George Pierpoint and Sarah Dutton

[Rowan Tree]

Not sure if this is related to your Thomas & Ellen TWIST or not surname transcribed as SWIST on Anc*y

1861c
Piece   2779
Folio   85
Page number   4
Thomas 37 Head Parr, Lancashire  coal miner
Ellen 34 Wife
William 15 Son
Mary Ann 8 Daughter
Thomas 4 Son
All others born Abram, Lancashire

Is this the birth entry for Thomas?

TWIST, THOMAS       mmn BAINES 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 117

Thanks for this 

This is looking like a different Thomas and Ellen. This Thomas and Ellen don't appear to have the right places of birth. On multiple censuses, this Ellen has a birth place of Abram which, although in Lancashire, just isn't a fit for the Ellen in my tree who was born in Haydock.

It's a good suggestion, though. Thanks 

[Rowan Tree]

I've found Ellen's death.

It's registered under the name of Helen TWISS.

Ellen was baptised with the name, Helen, so that fits.

Ellen/Helen died at Stone Row, Haydock in May of 1855.

[Rowan Tree]

10th September 1849. St. Thomas (Eccleston), Prescot
Thomas TWIST, 21, bachelor, miner, Windle, William TWIST, miner
Ellen BANE, 22, spinster, Windle, William BANE, miner
Married by banns
Witnessed by John BANE and Jane TWIST

17th March 1856. St. Elphin, Warrington
Thomas TWISS, 26, widower, labourer, Bold St, William TWISS, deceased
Jane SPENCER, 21, spinster, Bold St, Edward SPENCER, labourer
Married by banns
Witnessed by George Pierpoint and Sarah Dutton

AlanBoyd (and anyone else reading),

I was wondering if I can ask your opinion on this one...

I'm now confident that the Thomas TWIST and Thomas TWISS in the above two marriages are one in the same person.

I'm wondering if the William TWIST/TWISS listed as Thomas' father is the youngest brother from the tithe maps. What do you think?

I've got two possible death certificates (not that either of them are necessarily a fit). One is in Parr for an engineer at a colliery. The other is in Newton for a collier.
Thomas TWIST/TWISS has a birth place of Newton on the 51 and 61 census.

Do you think Thomas' father is the brother, William, that I was struggling to work out?

[AlanBoyd]

17th March 1856. St. Elphin, Warrington
Thomas TWISS, 26, widower, labourer, Bold St, William TWISS, deceased
Jane SPENCER, 21, spinster, Bold St, Edward SPENCER, labourer
Married by banns
Witnessed by George Pierpoint and Sarah Dutton

In the 1861 census entry that I mentioned earlier (reply #25) there is an Alice Spencer, 15, nurse, in the Twist household.

[AlanBoyd]

Added: I’m having difficulty in reconciling this with the only William Twiss that I have found in the area being recorded as a labourer aged 30. Perhaps the William Twiss described below died before the census?

Added again: I found the 1839 death that you mentioned for William Twiss aged 37, so yes that would explain why the 1838 tithe record doesn’t match the 1841 census.

—-ORIGINAL POST—-

Looking again at the tithe apportionments I have realised that William Twist has a total of 18 plots: I missed 16 of these because his name has mainly been mistranscribed as TWIOT. This has enabled me to locate him more precisely.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.1&lat=53.47294&lon=-2.67410&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

The lane running to the NNE just to the east of New Florida on this map view is labelled Haydock Lane (the lettering is very spaced out). Just to the NNE of New Florida you should be able to find the 'c' of "Haydock Lane". The house immediately to the SSW of the "c" with the square garden showing a pattern of paths etc is William Twist's house. The plots that he occupied include the thin strip running along the other side of the lane (and bounded by the Clipsley Brook), the long plot extending back from the house and larger plots to the W and NW of the house across the area that is riddled with Coal Pits and Old Coal Pits. I assume that these were premodern pits: literally holes in the ground dug to reach the coal seams just under the surface whose size was limited by the risk of caving in.

[AlanBoyd]

All change.

In 1851 the same William Twiss (judging by name of wife and children] is present on Haydock Lane as a farmer of 11 acres. His age is 41 [dob 1810]. He is in the same position relative to neighbours as in 1841 (Twiss, Turton, Dierden, Greenall/Greenhough. On the tithe map the latter two are located at the north end of Haydock Lane, and in the 1851 sequence they are located just before Mill Fields Lane which is at the north end of Haydock Lane. All of this evidence from the censuses places William Twiss at the southern end of Haydock Lane, which fits with the 1838 tithe map.

There is a baptism: 1810 St Helens for William Twist, father Thomas Twist.

There is an 1830 Prescot marriage to an Elizabeth Leavesley which may fit (he is a collier)

The family is still on Haydock Lane in 1861.

There is a death in Dec 1869 William TWISS farmer, Haydock with a probate naming widow Elizabeth and brother James, engine driver.

(I'm just giving outlines here because I suspect that you will have all of this already. The main point is to establish that this William TWISS is the William TWIST located on the tithe map.)

Note that this William Twiss cannot be the father of Thomas Twiss, widower who married Jane Spencer in 1856 because that William Twiss is recorded as deceased.

[Rowan Tree]

17th March 1856. St. Elphin, Warrington
Thomas TWISS, 26, widower, labourer, Bold St, William TWISS, deceased
Jane SPENCER, 21, spinster, Bold St, Edward SPENCER, labourer
Married by banns
Witnessed by George Pierpoint and Sarah Dutton

In the 1861 census entry that I mentioned earlier (reply #25) there is an Alice Spencer, 15, nurse, in the Twist household.

Hi Alan,

I'm back on the case! And now, thankfully, on the other side of a stinking cough/cold.

Yes - Alice SPENCER. I've not checked who Jane SPENCER's family is (beyond her father on her marriage certificate), but I'm thinking Alice SPENCER is a relative of Jane's (sister, cousin, niece..).

RT