Witnesses and date on a will in 1660s Yorkshire

[jonwicken]

Attached is the will of my ancestor Robert Dickinson of Eastby in the parish of Skipton, Yorkshire.

He was buried on 22 December 1661 at Skipton, but his will was not proved until 1 June 1663 at York

(https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=OR%2FBRS%2F306%2F0027&parentid=OR%2FBRS%2F306%2F0027).

Can anyone please work out what the year is at the top? Is it 1660? And the date is 17 of what month? I think it is an initial for the month.

In the will, Robert Dickinson leaves his possessions and £4 to his son and daughter-in-law Henry King and Margaret King, formerly Dickinson.

The two of them are also named as executors.

The witnesses are a Margaret King and an Annas [Agnes] King.

I assume that these two women are two of Henry and Margaret's daughters.

However can anyone please confirm that at this time you would still not have been able to witness a will if you were a beneficiary or executor.

I want to make sure that Margaret King the witness cannot be the same as Robert Dickinson's daughter Margaret King the beneficiary and executor.

Thank you,
Jon 



 

[Bookbox]

I believe the year at the top is written 16 & nintie = 1690. I'm afraid I have no idea what precedes that. It looks like 17 R [?].

Is there no other date given anywhere in the paperwork - perhaps on a wrapper, or on the grant of probate? I can see the Calendar that you've linked to on FindMyPast, with the handwritten annotation at the foot. But how does the Borthwick Institute date the will in its own catalogue?

Before 1858 a beneficiary could witness a will, as long as there was also another witness.

[jonwicken]

I believe the year at the top is written 16 & nintie = 1690. I'm afraid I have no idea what precedes that. It looks like 17 R [?].

Is there no other date given anywhere in the paperwork - perhaps on a wrapper, or on the grant of probate? I can see the Calendar that you've linked to on FindMyPast, with the handwritten annotation at the foot. But how does the Borthwick Institute date the will in its own catalogue?

Before 1858 a beneficiary could witness a will, as long as there was also another witness.

That is great and super helpful to know about the law on witnesses.

I am writing an article on this King family for the Quaker Family History Society publication Quaker Connections to collate all my research and am trying to tie up some loose ends. So thank you.

This is the other side of the probate document, which very clearly states that it was proved in 1663, so I am very confused about the date on the will. It was been catalogued elsewhere as 1690 I think, but it is clearly not.

Son-in-law Henry King died in 1680 and the will clearly shows it was proved in 1663.

The information about probate and witnesses is very helpful as I assume therefore that Margaret King the witness is the same as the beneficiary and executor.

Henry King's wife Margaret Dickinson|King was baptised in Skipton in 1620. Their marriage has not been found, however from her age it would put their 10 children as being born between c1640-1665.

Some of their children were baptised in the parish registers of Marton and Skipton; Jane in 1644, John in 1647, Henry in 1649 and William in 1650.

Their other children's baptisms are not in the registers as I think they then joined the Quakers and birth registers only exist from the 1660s. 

Daughter Margaret King, who I believe is the spinster in the other document you kindly translated, was therefore presumably born between c1652 and 1665. She married widower John Walbank in 1699 and died in 1732.

Agnes or Annas King who is the other witness on the will I think is their eldest daughter, presumably born around 1642. It is possible her baptism is in Marton like that of sister Jane but the registers are illegible in places due to water damage.

Agnes King married William Ellis in Broughton on 1 February 1676/7 and had a daughter Ann Ellis in 1680 whose birth was recorded in the Quaker births.

I had wondered if the witness Annas/Agnes King could be a sister or mother of Henry King rather than his daughter, but I have found no Agnes Kings in the family or records.

Thanks again,
Jon
 

 

 

[Bookbox]

This is the other side of the probate document, which very clearly states that it was proved in 1663, so I am very confused about the date on the will. It was been catalogued elsewhere as 1690 I think, but it is clearly not.

Thanks for posting the other side. This suggests that the document is a later copy, made in 1690, of an original will proved in 1663. It does not include the testator's signature, and all the witnesses' names are in the same hand.

[jonwicken]

This is the other side of the probate document, which very clearly states that it was proved in 1663, so I am very confused about the date on the will. It was been catalogued elsewhere as 1690 I think, but it is clearly not.

Thanks for posting the other side. This suggests that the document is a later copy, made in 1690, of an original will proved in 1663. It does not include the testator's signature, and all the witnesses' names are in the same hand.

Thanks for this. That does indeed make sense.

But why would a copy have been lodged in York in 1690?

What happened to the original?

Could it have been proved elsewhere?

It says the place it was proved was Craven and googling, I found this:

https://www.dalescommunityarchives.org.uk/content/organisation/north-craven-wills-inventories-2

So was Robert Dickinson's will proved elsewhere? And could the original survive in another archive?

If you have any thoughts on this, that would be helpful.

Thank you.

[Bookbox]

I am not an expert on Yorkshire probate jurisdictions, which are very complicated.

However, the jurisdiction for Eastby was the Archdeaconry of Richmond, Eastern Division. These wills used to be held at the West Yorkshire Archive Service in Leeds, but I think they have now been transferred to the Borthwick. So the original may be there, as well as this 1690 copy. Alternatively, the original may have been lost, and this may be the only surviving copy. I would suggest you email the Borthwick and ask for advice: they are normally very helpful.

https://www.york.ac.uk/borthwick/contact/

[jonwicken]

Thanks very much indeed, Bookbox.

I will do that now.

Kind regards,
Jon