Author Topic: Married or Not  (Read 514 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Married or Not
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 01 July 25 08:27 BST (UK) »
Could this be one of those "irregular marriages" I've read about and if so, would using the other name be recognised for any legal purpose?
Small can of worms here.

An irregular marriage was (usually) contracted by the couple declaring themselves to be married in the presence of two witnesses. This was a perfectly legal marriage in the eyes of the law, but not in the eyes of the kirk, which would, given half a chance, admonish and fine the offenders.

After the start of civil registration in 1855 and until the law was changed in ?1939 you could still get married by declaration, but you then had to get the marriage registered by going to the Sheriff with your witnesses and making a statement that you had married this way, backed up by the witnesses. You then got a warrant that you took to the Registrar authorising him to make a record of it in his register of marriages.

So the expression 'irregular marriage' used by the kirk ceased to have any real meaning after 1855, when marriages that the kirk would have regarded as 'irregular' were entered in the civil registers. No doubt the kirk continued to fulminate against such marriages, but in vain.

Your Elizabeth's dates are well after 1855, so I very much doubt that an 'irregular' marriage comes into it at all, unless she and John Bruce declared themselves married in front of witnesses and then neglected to get a sheriff's warrant and have the marriage properly registered.

As for legal recognition of the second surname, I doubt it.

But all this is generalisation, and I'm sure people will be able to come up with specific cases to contradict the foregoing.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline woiiftm

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Re: Married or Not
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 01 July 25 19:50 BST (UK) »
Could this be one of those "irregular marriages" I've read about and if so, would using the other name be recognised for any legal purpose?
Small can of worms here.

An irregular marriage was (usually) contracted by the couple declaring themselves to be married in the presence of two witnesses. This was a perfectly legal marriage in the eyes of the law, but not in the eyes of the kirk, which would, given half a chance, admonish and fine the offenders.

After the start of civil registration in 1855 and until the law was changed in ?1939 you could still get married by declaration, but you then had to get the marriage registered by going to the Sheriff with your witnesses and making a statement that you had married this way, backed up by the witnesses. You then got a warrant that you took to the Registrar authorising him to make a record of it in his register of marriages.

So the expression 'irregular marriage' used by the kirk ceased to have any real meaning after 1855, when marriages that the kirk would have regarded as 'irregular' were entered in the civil registers. No doubt the kirk continued to fulminate against such marriages, but in vain.

Your Elizabeth's dates are well after 1855, so I very much doubt that an 'irregular' marriage comes into it at all, unless she and John Bruce declared themselves married in front of witnesses and then neglected to get a sheriff's warrant and have the marriage properly registered.

As for legal recognition of the second surname, I doubt it.

But all this is generalisation, and I'm sure people will be able to come up with specific cases to contradict the foregoing.

Many thanks for this explanation, much apprerciated.

Offline woiiftm

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Re: Married or Not
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 01 July 25 19:53 BST (UK) »
Even though not married to him, have you considered that John Bruce may not be completely fictitious.
Could he have been the Assurance Company Manager, and Elsie's father?


In 1901 (in the directories) there is a John Bruce, Insurance Superintendent, at Comely Bank House, Strathmore Street, Perth.
Thanks for this little titbit, food for thought indeed but sadly no way to confirm.
Thanks again.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Married or Not
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 01 July 25 19:57 BST (UK) »
Elsie birth cert states Illegitimate, born to an Assurance Company Manager
Who is described as Assurance Company Manager on her birth certificate?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline woiiftm

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Re: Married or Not
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 02 July 25 16:59 BST (UK) »

 Hello,
Just a thanks to everyone who has given their time to try clarify this for us.
Cheers