Author Topic: Advice on mystery DNA please.  (Read 1091 times)

Offline Katharine75

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Advice on mystery DNA please.
« on: Saturday 28 June 25 15:11 BST (UK) »
Hi all.
Just after some advice on narrowing down an unknown grandparent through DNA......

My dad did a DNA test. Both parents known. Both maternal grandparents known. Only paternal grandmother known. Paternal grandfather UNKNOWN.

His ancestry results have many matches and I have allocated each match to the correct family line where possible based on written records and shared matches.
When looking at the matches that had no known links to the three known grandparents (and using the Leeds method) I was able to isolate numerous matches belonging to the mystery grandparent. Looking at their trees and connections I was then able to work out that the mystery grandparent is a descendant of two couples.
The first couple is F1 and M1 and the second couple is F2 and M2.
It is clear that my dad is a descendant of these four people as there are shared matches on all four sides. None of these four have and shared DNA with the known paternal grandmother.

I have the names of F&M1 and F&M2. I have all know children and birth years for these four people. But the problem is with the timeframe. My dad's father was born in 1924 to his mother and mystery father. Mother was born in 1903, so working on assumption mystery father was born around 1903 or prior.
F&M1 married in 1878 and had children between 1884-1894. No confirmation there are any older children, but that is a 6 year gap!!
F&M2 married in 1883 and had children between 1883-1901.

I am working on assumption that a child from couple 1 and a child from couple 2 have had a child together quite young (which is my dad's mystery grandfather).

BUT - dad has one match showing as a 2nd cousin who also has the same shared matches to couple 1 and couple 2. Her tree does not have any information that connects any of these people and has different names too. My suspicion is there might be an adoption or two on her side which accounts for the difference.
I have contacted the match, but she is not overly helpful at all. She does not feel there is any connection and seems to have overlooked what DNA evidence shows.

My questions:
Can anyone think of a different plausible scenario?
Would a Y-chromosone test be helpful? I am under the assumption that doing one will give me a surname that should match to either couple 1 or couple 2. If this is the case it would help me establish who had the baby (mystery grandfather).
If dad does a Y-chromosone test - can anyone recommend which one will give the surname I am after.

Thanks, Katharine.

Online Zaphod99

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Re: Advice on mystery DNA please.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 28 June 25 19:13 BST (UK) »
Have you looked for an earlier connection, such as using "Are my parents related?" On Gedmatch?

Giving centiMorgan values will help.

Zaph.

Offline 4b2

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Re: Advice on mystery DNA please.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 28 June 25 19:23 BST (UK) »
It's nice to see that your test provided with you enough info to find your missing line, minus one ancestor. Quite a lot of us are not that much wiser from these tests, owing to not having close enough matches.

Did you track down all the marriages for all the children of the two couples? And then follow them through the census. Note all the details down, including where they lived. You may find one of them or the parents living with a (grand)child born out of wedlock. From what you've written it seems you find it likely that both your pat-grandfather and his father were born out of wedlock. Based on what you've provided that seems the most likely scenario.

It would be useful if you could provide a spreadsheet showing how much cM those matches share with you, relationship distance, and how they relate to other shared matches. It's not really possible to say much more without all the possible data available. The relationships that Ancestry suggests are just suggestions, they can be something else. So it is possible to make mistakes.

It would also be worth going through matches further to see if you can find matches from previous generations to F1, M1, F2, M2. That will give you firm data that your line is through them, and there is just the a bit of a gap.

It's quite normal to have these gaps and they might never be filled. You might be able to rule some candidates out and consider others more likely. But unless a closer descendant is tested, you will probably have a gap.

It would be worth taking the Y-37 DNA from FamilyTreeDNA ($120, is 20% off periodically). This is a low resolution test that gives you details of matches, and based on that you can see if there are any that are close enough to be worth upgrading to the genealogically useful 700 market test. You may also find from the 37 market test that you have many matches with the same surname as one of your M1 + M2 lines. So you can be fairly certain of what you biological line is. It's also worth noting that the number of Y tests taken by people from the UK is probably no more than 100,000. And many of them are the low resolution tests.

It could really be anything though. I have been through all my lines with a fine comb and its not an exact science. For a long time I thought that apparently not having matches on a line meant there may have been infidelity. But there are many things to consider. One is that there can just be very few matches on a line. Another is matches can get jumbled due to shared ancestry on more than one line. But I have one ancestor born in 1848 who I am sure is not the biological child of either of her parents. But proving lines with each generation get harder. This ancestor could have been switched at birth, adopted, or maybe a previous generation was a NPE. Very often DNA just gives some clues... unless the right match comes along, assuming there is such a person living.

Regarding the suggested 2C match, is there any one line that appears to be in the same area as your line. Also look at each of the matches lines, for the potential (half-)siblings of your ancestor.

Also consider that a likely 2C looks very similar to a half 1C.

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Advice on mystery DNA please.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 30 June 25 10:42 BST (UK) »
Is it an Ancestry DNA test that your Dad took?

If so then Subscribing to Pro Tools for a month will enable you to see how much DNA each specific match also shares with each of the shared matches.

You can also colour code using the process that I detail in post #28 in the thread

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863488.27

The Leeds Method has its limitations, specifically the cM range of matches that it is applicable to. 

As Ancestry’s tools are limited it may be useful for him to take a My Heritage DNA test and to have a very basic family tree on the site, there are some useful tools there.

Upload his DNA to Gedmatch and learn about the tools available there, both the free ones and the subscription one.

For yDNA the best one is via ftDNA and I suggest their 111 which is the one that I took.  It did confirm the Surname that I was expecting but the real eye opener was the massive diversity of surnames that it revealed.

I am sure that you know but many researchers can get hooked on paperwork and citations, ignoring the obvious that they can be false documentation.  DNA is fact, well at least a sizeable amount of shared DNA outside the false positive zone does indeed give a biological match.


Offline farmeroman

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Re: Advice on mystery DNA please.
« Reply #4 on: Friday 18 July 25 14:19 BST (UK) »
I have an almost identical issue to Katharine's but don't want to barge in on this thread, so I've started another one.

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: Advice on mystery DNA please.
« Reply #5 on: Friday 18 July 25 15:56 BST (UK) »
Almost identical to my tree except for the fact my parents were born 1923 and 1924 rather than the unknown grandparents which seriously hampers the quality of matches. The dates, target testers now long gone and unavailable plus the lower shared cM with half related matches pose challenges, not helped by matches insisting one man fathered 9 children including four who were born long after he died.
Most of my effort seems to be proving their trees are incorrect based on dna and running their trees in WATO/WATO+  followed by my own and comparing the results.