Elizabeth 'Bowler'

[jonwarrn]

My dad was born in 1933 and remembers Elizabeth very well, unfortunately he's no longer around to ask about her death, although I've got a pretty good hint off FindMyPast of 1952 GRO10e/40

Age is good.
Dec 1952 Manchester 10e 40
Bell, Elizabeth Ann   
Age 73   

Probate for her, a will proved in 1953
Elizabeth Ann Bell of 7 Longworth Street Hulme Manchester, widow
Died 28 November 1952
Probate Manchester 21 February to Elsie Jane Davis, married woman
Effects £584 2s. 2d.

Was Elsie Jane a daughter of Joseph?

[NorthernGeezer]

I'm of the opinion that George and Barbara are Elizabeth's grandparents as suggested by jonwarrn yesterday leaving some doubt as to who her actual mother is??
Could she be illegitimate and took the name Staveley in the absence of an unknown father, she used the surname Staveley in her marriage to Charles Bowler and not one from any potential marriage to her birth mother??

As far as I can tell Jon, Joseph and Elizabeth had no children, Elsie is my maternal grandmother, her mother was Mary Ann Clutton (1883-1909) she had a sister Alice and a brother William.
I'm of the opinion the 1952 death for Elizabeth is correct.

[jonwarrn]

Excellent, it all seems to be coming together.

There is this birth
BOWLER, MAUD  LILIAN     
Mother's Maiden Surname: STAVELEY 
GRO Reference: 1901  D Quarter in PRESTON  Volume 08E  Page 501

But I haven't found anything further.

[NorthernGeezer]

1901 in Preston looks promising, although there are a lot of Staveley's about but its not a million miles in a move away from Fleetwood.

I've been looking for Charles Bowlers death between 1899, the year they married, and 1917 which is the year of the first record of Elizabeth and Joseph together.
There's a Charles Henry Bowler died in 1901 age 41 in Chorlton, Manchester but I would assume in the year of his daughters birth in Preston he wouldn't be in Chorlton.

I think we've gone as far with this as we are going to get, my dad saw Elizabeth as his grandmother, he didn't even know about Mary Ann Clutton till I brought it up and neither did his siblings, folks back then kept things very close to there chests didn't they, my wifes mother had 3 siblings die in the first year of infancy and she didn't know anything about them either 

Whilst not a blood relative I'm intrigued by Elizabeth, if for no other reason than the journey she took from her birth in Ambleside to Manchester via Fleetwood, another one of those mysteries we wont ever solve, and we've all got loads of those don't we 

Can I thank everyone for there input, as usual Rootschat members have come up trumps again.

[Ladyhawk]

Excellent, it all seems to be coming together.

There is this birth
BOWLER, MAUD  LILIAN     
Mother's Maiden Surname: STAVELEY 
GRO Reference: 1901  D Quarter in PRESTON  Volume 08E  Page 501

But I haven't found anything further.

Is this her baptism?

Maud Lilian Bowler
Birth 20 Aug 1901
Baptism 15 Jan 1902 Bradford, St Chrysostom, Yorkshire
Father Charles Bowler occ soldier Elizabeth abode 3 Disal??y St Preston
West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910

[Ladyhawk]

What information does the 1918 marriage give for her - does it name her father
BELL   Joseph   
BOWLER   Elizabeth Ann   
1918   Congleton, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended   
Cheshire East   C/20/158

Have you seen this ?

Joseph Bell
Enlistment Age   33
Marriage Date   1924
Marriage Place   Parish Church Wheelock
Document Date   1915
Residence Place   53 Derwent St, Ordsall Lane Salford
Military Date   1915
Regimental Number   6484
Regiment Name   Machine Gun Corps Batt Manchester Regiment
Number of Images   4
Form Title   Attestation
William (Clutton)child 16 7 04
Elsie Jane Bell Child 8 1 06
Alice Bell Child 15 5 07
All born at Wheelock Cheshire
Under information given by recruit there is crossings out particulars to marriage
faintly written can just make out
Elizabeth Ann Bowler widow

Edit and removed the details of JB Durham Light Infantry, wife Elizabeth Ann as not relevant

[NorthernGeezer]

Your half right Ladyhawk 

What I already know...............
Joseph was born in 1883 and has had a very chequered military career.
He joined the 21st Lancers in June 1902, lasted 2 days before 'leaving' then rejoined in March 1903, stayed for 2 months this time then bought himself out, I need to investigate this further when I get round to it as I cant find him on a 1901 census.

Fast forward to WW1, he attested on 7/12/1915 in Manchester and was mobilized on 5/1/1917 to the 5th Battalion Manchester Regiment, service number 6484.
He was transferred to the Machine Gun Corp on 9/3/1917 and issued with a new service number 88057 and posted to France in May of that year, he was injured in October of that year but as yet I don't know the extent of that Injury.
He next appears on the service records 14 months later on December 1918, after the war had finished and he was awaiting trial after striking an officer 
He was found guilty, sentenced to 5 years hard labour, commuted to 12 months in Cardiff jailed and discharged accordingly on his release.

The details regarding his children on the attestation form are correct, as is the fact he was in a relationship with Elizabeth Ann Bowler who was a widow from a previous marriage to a Charles Bowler in Fleetwood, her birth name was Staveley.
I have evidence she didn't marry Joseph until 1918.

The Joseph Bell in Gateshead is not my Joseph bell.