Englishby sisters - Ardee Townparks

[Elwyn Soutter]

This is probably her:

Name   Margaret Englishby
Event Type   Death
Event Date   Oct - Dec 1912
Event Place   Ardee, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year   Oct - Dec 1912
Registration District   Ardee
Age   90
Birth Year (Estimated)   1822
Volume Number   2

Seems like she aged 9 years in 1

In the 1800s and early 1900s, most people in Ireland didn’t celebrate birthdays and often didn’t really know when they were born. Their deaths - registered by someone with even flimsier knowledge - may therefore often be out by 10 years or more. That’s very common. No documentation was required to establish the deceased’s age (none probably existed) and so folk just guessed.

[Sinann]

There is a marriage in 1889 of a Jane Englishby, Townparks Ardee.
The witnesses don't appear to be of any help and there is no father's name but I wonder if she could be another sister.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10723/5909868.pdf

[GDub71]

I have this Jane (1855-1938) as the daughter of John Englishby (b.1843) and Ellen Smith (b.1845). It's hard to tell with the age discrepancies but maybe John could be a brother rather? He was born in Drogheda.

[Sinann]

Her parent's weren't married so her father is unlikely to be an Englishby.

[ColC]

Despite the sudden increase in age, Margarets death record in 1912 states that she was a Labourers Widow. The death was in the Workhouse.
When Catherine died, also in 1912, she was noted as a Labourers daughter.
Catherine had reported her sister Margarets death in 1910, she was noted as a Labourer.

The 1901 census in Ireland was taken on 31 March, sister Mary died 6 June 1901 in the Workhouse and is noted as a Labourer, so that does not tally with the census one week earlier, if that is the sister?

1901 census: 15 in Lawnparks (Ardee Rural, Louth)
Englishby Mary 45 Head of Family Farmer
Englishby Margaret 43 Sister Nil
Englishby Catherine 39 Sister Nil
Cane Laurence 13 Son Scholar

1911 census: 28 in John Street (Ardee Town, Louth)
Englishby Catherine 66 Head of Family Louth Labourer
McCay Larance 21Nephew Louth Labourer

1911 census: 31 in John Street (Ardee Town, Louth)
Mathews Anne 69 Head of Family
Baley Mary A 10 Grand Daughter
          (Birth record 1899 for Mary Ellen, father Hugh, mmn Mary Anne Bailey)
Englishby Margaret 80 Boarder

I know that the age on records are not always accurate so maybe some of this is down to transcription errors?

Colin

[GDub71]

I wasn't aware that they were all in the workhouse. Catherine's age jump from 1901 to 1911 is ridiculous though (39 to 66?) and I'm fairly sure it's the same person, as Larry is living with her both times. She got a court order to quit the house in 1911 as well, so they must have been incredibly poor. It's ironic that on Larry's wife's side, they were quite well off and I can trace an ancestral line from her all the way back to Brian Boru. On this Kane / Englishby side though, I can't get far at all.

[Elwyn Soutter]

I wasn't aware that they were all in the workhouse. Catherine's age jump from 1901 to 1911 is ridiculous though (39 to 66?) and I'm fairly sure it's the same person, as Larry is living with her both times. She got a court order to quit the house in 1911 as well, so they must have been incredibly poor. It's ironic that on Larry's wife's side, they were quite well off and I can trace an ancestral line from her all the way back to Brian Boru. On this Kane / Englishby side though, I can't get far at all.

In Ireland a lot of people pushed their ages up between the 1901 & 1911 censuses.  Often quite a bit. The usual reason was to qualify for the old age pension. The Old Age Pension came in across the UK and Ireland in 1909. You had to be 70 or over to qualify, and proof of age was required. In England birth certificates had started in 1837 so most applicants had that but in Ireland they didn’t start till 1864, so no-one eligible around 1911 would have a birth certificate. Alternative documentation was acceptable eg baptismal certificates, plus some marriage certificates could prove you were born over 70 years ago. Military discharge records which showed an age were also used. For other applicants a check could be made against the 1851, and where relevant, the 1841 censuses (which still existed until the 1922 fire). If your age in 1851 made you 70 now, you could qualify.

So people were aware that censuses were being used as part of the age proof arrangements, and therefore tended to raise their age in 1911 in the hope it might be checked when they claimed their pension.

[GDub71]

Thanks Elwyn, that does put the age discrepancies in a different light and for Catherine who was most likely in ill-health and destitute, it makes a lot of sense.

[ColC]

I wasn't aware that they were all in the workhouse.

Only Mary was in the Workhouse, Catherine was in John St. and I assume so was Margaret as Catherine was present at her death but no address on record.

Colin