Armstrong family in Dipton

[Elliven]

AlanBoyd

There were people in Lintz, Blackhall Mill and Dipton named Armstrong and all of them were members of the same family - but none of them were the main branch which was based at the bottle works in Dipton.  I am looking for the Thomas Armstrong who started the business in Dipton and the Robert (Bob) Armstrong who followed him and I am trying to find out where they actually lived and to follow their direct line of descent.

I know that Robert succeeded Thomas and his early bottles even featured the TA monogram of Thomas but who came next?  And what ultimately happened to finish off the business.  From being a prominent brewing/bottling business, and a series of publicans, they just disappeared from the scene.

I have been able to track a number of the pubs they owned but one remains a mystery - The Letters.  The last mention of it was when it, and several other pubs in the area were put up for sale in 1862.  I have even identified its exact location in the village.  It was a solidly built stone building and it was freehold property so it should have been a good prospect as a pub - but it just vanished.

I have no way of knowing but this 1862 sale (by private treaty, not by auction) looks like it might have been the Armstrong dynasty selling off all its assets.

Neville

[AlanBoyd]

Thanks for that summary. Could you please just extend it briefly by giving approximate dates for Thomas and Robert Armstrong of Dipton.

[Elliven]

Possibly two Thomases in the period 1800-1850 and Robert around 1860-1880.  But "Someone" was selling off their assets from 1862 onwards

[AlanBoyd]

OK, thanks. Where would Robert Armstrong in my reply #7 fit do you think?

[Elliven]

I think the Robert Armstrong you mentioned would either be the man who sold off all the assets - or his son.  This is because all the assets were sold off around 1862 and I believe that this Robert Armstrong would be presiding over what was left.  I think the rise of the bigger breweries was probably the cause of them giving up bottling other peoples beer and stout especially in the 1880s and 1890s when the stone bottles were being phased out in favour of glass.  The investment in new equipment would have been significant and possibly not commercially viable.

[jonwarrn]

There are a few bits and pieces on FamilySearch (full text available), including
Halmote Court Roll
Be it remembered that on the twenty sixth day of April in the year of our Lord One thousand eight hundred and ninety four came Joseph Alston Dover and Patrick McGiven both of 13 Mosley Street in the City and County of Newcastle upon Tyne Wine and Spirit Merchants out of Court at Newcastle upon Tyne before Frank Marshall Gentleman Deputy for this time only of Alfred De Bock Porter Esquire Steward and took of the Lords. First All that piece of copyhold land of an irregular shape situate at Dipton in the County of Durham. Together with the messuage or dwelling house now used as a public house and known as the " Belle Vue House " and the Shed and other outbuildings behind the same erected and built thereon as the same were formerly in the occupation of William Smith and are now in the occupation of Thomas Armstrong. Bounded on or towards the North partly by a private Road communicating with the Turnpike Road leading from Leadgate to Newcastle upon Tyne and partly by another private Road leading to the Marquis of Butes Cottages....
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-QV3H

1897, and something involving Thomas Armstrong of Blackhall Mill, wine & spirit merchant, and the Rock Permanent Benefit Building Society (starts right hand page)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-QJWM

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1R-SQCG-7?view=fullText&keywords=Thomas%20Armstrong%2CBlackhall%20Mill&lang=en&groupId=

Some earlier hits for William Smith (innkeeper) of Dipton in the manor court rolls.
And a few later ones for Belle View House, with a plan or two
i.e.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-4CKB?view=fullText&keywords=Belle%20Vue%20House&lang=en&groupId=

[Elliven]

jonwarrn

My first thoughts were "WOW!!!"

It appears that Armstrongs were victims of a  power struggle and lost most of their bottling business when James Calder & Co, Dover & Newsome Baxter Ltd and Archibald Arroll & Sons Ltd were all involved in a scramble for business in the North of England.

Armstrongs were not big business nationally but were very prosperous locally.  It is hard to understand why but Calders set Dover & Newsome Baxter up to buy up Newsome Baxter brewery in Yorkshire and Dover's Wine & Spirit Merchants  - with Mr Dover at the helm.

Calders and Dover & Newsome Baxter probably bought the leases to Armstrong's premises and then the writing was on the wall and Armstrongs sold off their pubs and eventually went out of business.
It is not exactly clear how it worked but Dover had served his purpose and Archibald Arroll bought his company out, sold the Newsome Baxter brewery to Calders and only the two big boys survived.

Before I followed up your post, I had no idea that these big boys were even involved - but, reading the documents in your attachments, it quickly became clear.  The main Armstrong complex in Dipton was demolished in the 1960s; the Lintz Green premises were demolished around the late 1990s and the Blackhall Mill premises (bottling plant and warehouse) is still standing although I have no idea what it is used for today.  Thanks for your contribution.

Elliven

[AlanBoyd]

I'm taking a stroll through Dipton in 1901 and I found this sequence starting at:
RD Lanchester
ED 21
RG 13
piece 4666
folio 216
page 29
schedule 162

162 Belle Vue Ho. (Hopper's Nook)
William Dorward, 30, manager, beer store, Sunderland

163 Hoppers Nook, a retired coalminer

164-167, 4 households, inc. 3 miners all with the address:
Pop Factory Yard, (Hopper's Nook)


In 1911 William Dorward is a brewery mineral water foreman in Alnwick. His eldest child is aged 7 born Darlington, so the family must have left Dipton ~1904

[AlanBoyd]

The enumeration sequence in 1901 is:

Delight Row
Cross Delight Row
Front Street
Front Street (Maddisons Row)
Front Street (Stanfords? Bldgs)
Fox Inn
Todds Bldgs
Williamsons Bldgs
Dipton House
Wilkinsons Bldgs
Rose Cottages (Front St)
Wheatleys Blgs
Opp Fox Inn (Front St)
Bute Arms
Wesley Tce
Front St
Johnson's Avenue
Stanfords Bldgs (back) (Hoppers Nook)
Marquis Houses
Hoppers Nook (Marquis Houses)
Belle Vue Ho. (Hopper's Nook)
Pop Factory Yard,(Hopper's Nook)
Weed Park (Collierley) 31
Collierley Farm 31
Low Collierley Cottage 32
Low Collierley Farm 32
[end of Dipton,  St John Parish, Flint Hall follows on]

This is a 1950s/1960s map of the area overlaid on a modern street map (slide the slider to see the modern map). I realise this is much later than the period of interest, but it seems to be the best source of place names for Dipton, and certainly many of the 1901 names are still there at that time.


https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.4&lat=54.88142&lon=-1.75583&layers=258&b=osm&o=100