Passenger details of OLIVER family arr Sydney Aug 1886

[hanes teulu]

Thanks hanes teulu for your postings.  I have come across the info.  The Norah mentioned in the newspaper articles is the same person as Honora Bridget Rodgers nee McCarthy.
Will keep looking for a possible connection.

Thanks again
TPB

Can you clarify "possible connection"? The newspaper item describes Honora as his "sister" - do you agree/accept that?

[Tgapitbull]

hanes teulu, I have learnt the hard way never to assume and to verify information.

In respect of Honora, her parents were Henry McCarthy and Margaret McMullen married in NZ in 1885.  Both were from Ireland.  Henry and Margaret had 4 children born between 1886 - 1890 in NZ.  I could not find anything that suggested that either Henry or Margaret had been married or had children before arriving in NZ; so no 'half siblings'.  Two of Honora's siblings died young, ie 18 yrs and 20yrs.

 Robert Oliver was born in Liverpool according to his military file.  I have checked the Lancashire BDM, Lancashire OPC, Ancestry, FindMyPast, Familysearch and contacted Liverpool & SW Lancashire Family History Group - with no success finding Robert's birth.

On this basis I don't agree/accept that Honora was Robert's 'sister'.

I do however wonder if the 'connection' could be through her husband Charles.  According to Robert's military file Robert had an Anchor tattoo on his left arm which could suggest that he might have been a mariner at some stage?  I do know that Charles in 1911 was a fireman on the ss 'Flora' and was employed by the Union Steamship Company.  I have checked with the USS Coy and they could not find any records of a Robert Oliver.

It is possible that Robert knew Charles?  As Charles could volunteer/be called up for military service, this is how Honara was Robert's 'Nominated NOK'.  Charles was attested at Trentham on 5 May 1916 for WW1.

Have to dash!

Thanks for your interest.
TPB

[hanes teulu]

hanes teulu, I have learnt the hard way never to assume and to verify information.

In respect of Honora, her parents were Henry McCarthy and Margaret McMullen married in NZ in 1885.  Both were from Ireland.  Henry and Margaret had 4 children born between 1886 - 1890 in NZ.  I could not find anything that suggested that either Henry or Margaret had been married or had children before arriving in NZ; so no 'half siblings'.  Two of Honora's siblings died young, ie 18 yrs and 20yrs.

 Robert Oliver was born in Liverpool according to his military file.  I have checked the Lancashire BDM, Lancashire OPC, Ancestry, FindMyPast, Familysearch and contacted Liverpool & SW Lancashire Family History Group - with no success finding Robert's birth.

On this basis I don't agree/accept that Honora was Robert's 'sister'.

I do however wonder if the 'connection' could be through her husband Charles.  According to Robert's military file Robert had an Anchor tattoo on his left arm which could suggest that he might have been a mariner at some stage?  I do know that Charles in 1911 was a fireman on the ss 'Flora' and was employed by the Union Steamship Company.  I have checked with the USS Coy and they could not find any records of a Robert Oliver.

It is possible that Robert knew Charles?  As Charles could volunteer/be called up for military service, this is how Honara was Robert's 'Nominated NOK'.  Charles was attested at Trentham on 5 May 1916 for WW1.

Have to dash!

Thanks for your interest.
TPB

While the papers are a wonderful source, it's a truism "that you shouldn't believe everything you read ......". There remains a question mark over the claimed relationship and difficult to take forward.
I too wondered about Charles' and Robert's possible army links, having picked up Charles Rodgers' " ... late sapper No. 22,108 ..." obit in the Otago Daily Times, 13 Dec 1934. But again so difficult to take forward.

Best of luck with the search.

[softly softly]

Can I throw in a curved ball and lead us down a rabbit hole. Details know about Robert Oliver. Born 3rd june 1879, Liverpool. Parents-? Death known.

This man below  I have tried to follow from birth but can only find in 1881 census.

Robert Clarkson born 3rd June 1879, Liverpool. Parents Robert (Engineer) & Janet nee' Louden.

Baptism image on Anc.

1881 census ref 3599 17 28

Robert Clarkson   36   Head
Janet Clarkson 34 Wife
Andrew Clarkson 16 Son
David Clarkson 11 Son  reads born Liverpool--incorrect as below.
Richard ? Clarkson 1 Son Image distorted but reads Robert--Born Liverpool

CLARKSON ANDREW mmn LOUDEN Male 1865 644 / 7 / 395 Milton
CLARKSON DAVID LOUDON    mmn LOUDON Male 1870 644 / 10 / 349 Hutchesontown

CLARKSON, ROBERT       mmn LOUDEN 
GRO Reference: 1879  S Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 7

Did father die and mother remarried to an Oliver and a name change took place?

SS

added- possible 1891 census ref 2903 27 47

[Tgapitbull]

After your previous posting, it got me thinking!
I have checked the NZ DIA Birth Index and not found a birth for Charles Rodgers but he could be 'Rogers' - one born in 1883 and two in 1885; one of the two has no father recorded.
I have sent an Ancestry msg to an account holder who has a Charles Rodgers in a family tree to see if they can tell me anything further and await their response.
The 1908 ER for Dunedin has a Charles Rodgers, Margaret and a John Frederick Rodgers, Butcher all living at the same address.  I have checked a couple of Ancestry trees of John Frederick Rodgers and none have a Charles Rodgers.  However I did notice that John and Margaret's youngest son Daniel b 1880 was KIA on 8 August 1915.
Further research to undertake on Charles.

Thanks for helping with my search.

TPB

[sparrett]

Charles RODGER's attestation states born Port Chalmers. 27/10/1883.

I wonder whether the others in your E Roll listing above were also. 

Sue

[Tgapitbull]

Thanks Sue, however not been able to confirm date/place of birth for Charles.
The Charles, Margaret and John Rodgers in 1908 ER were living at Baldwin Court, North East Valley, Dunedin.

In 1893 John and Margaret were living in Duncan street, Dunedin.

TPB

[Tgapitbull]

Reply #21 - thanks SS.  Worth taking a look at.
Had a look at the 1881 census record and also 1891.
Found Andrew Clarkson b 4/3/1865 Glasgow; married 20/7/1890 Kensington, Lanc, Scotland and died May 1897 Liverpool.  At time of marriage he was living at 22 Butler st, Liverpool.  Married Ellen Hinchliff Jackson.  Andrew was a Mariner.
Found a possible additional child; Mary Wotherspoon Clarkson b 1867 and died 1938, Glasgow.  She did Mary.
Not sure about the 1891 census as there is a Jane, Single age 16yrs - I have yet to find her elsewhere, so have a question mark about this record.
 David's [born 1870] middle name appears to be Loudon.

Will call it a day as it is getting late.  Will be back to this tomorrow.

Thanks again. 

TPB

[softly softly]

There was another daughter born 1877, Liverpool mmn LONDON. Died same year, baptism records parents Robert & Janet.

Still does not shed any further light on Robert though.

SS