Ancestry 1841 census for the City of London, all marked Middlesex

[melba_schmelba]

Anyone looking for someone in London in 1841 may have no luck unless you specify Middlesex, as it turns out all the parishes within the City of London are wrongly put by Ancestry in a Middlesex category. If you browse using the drop down boxes on the right in this link, you can see there is no 'London' under the 'County' dropdown box

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8978/

On the plus side Ancestry seem to have restored the '& adjacent counties' feature in the search form .

[gc1]

I heard this before so just rechecked and Google search shows this

"In 1841, the historic county of Middlesex included London north of the Thames River, along with surrounding areas to the north and west. This area was a significant part of the broader census information for London, covering various parishes and areas within the county."

But agree you have to know this if you want to find what you are looking for

[melba_schmelba]

I heard this before so just rechecked and Google search shows this

"In 1841, the historic county of Middlesex included London north of the Thames River, along with surrounding areas to the north and west. This area was a significant part of the broader census information for London, covering various parishes and areas within the county."

But agree you have to know this if you want to find what you are looking for

That was not correct, Middlesex never covered the City of London, indeed if you look at the original census forms for 1841 for the City of London parishes, they say London not Middlesex. If this is from the Google Gemini AI answers that Google searches now generate, they are often wrong! Much of Middlesex became part of the County of London in 1889 and was later all absorbed by Greater London in the 1960s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_London

[maddys52]

I'm certainly no expert in this area. I do remember reading (and just found) this from Genuki:

"From 1851, the Registrar-General grouped together the census returns from those parts of Middlesex, Kent, and Surrey which formed the "metropolitan" area commonly called London - i.e. the built-up areas - as a separate "census county". This area was used as the basis of the area governed by the Metropolitan Board of Works and later formed with few alterations the new County of London when it was created in 1889. The areas covered include Paddington, Kensington, Fulham, Chelsea, St George Hanover Square, Westminster, Marylebone, Hampstead, Pancras, Islington, Hackney, St Giles, Strand, Holborn, London City, Shoreditch, Bethnal Green, Whitechapel, St George in the East, Stepney, Mile End Old Town, Poplar, St Saviour, Southwark, Lambeth, Wandsworth, Camberwell, Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich.

The rest of the county remained under the name of Middlesex."
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/MDX/census

Doesn't this imply in 1841 it was under Middlesex (or Kent or Surrey for other areas)?

[Wexflyer]

Major cities were counties unto themselves, and not part of any surrounding county - even when of the same name.

[melba_schmelba]

I'm certainly no expert in this area. I do remember reading (and just found) this from Genuki:

"From 1851, the Registrar-General grouped together the census returns from those parts of Middlesex, Kent, and Surrey which formed the "metropolitan" area commonly called London - i.e. the built-up areas - as a separate "census county". This area was used as the basis of the area governed by the Metropolitan Board of Works and later formed with few alterations the new County of London when it was created in 1889. The areas covered include Paddington, Kensington, Fulham, Chelsea, St George Hanover Square, Westminster, Marylebone, Hampstead, Pancras, Islington, Hackney, St Giles, Strand, Holborn, London City, Shoreditch, Bethnal Green, Whitechapel, St George in the East, Stepney, Mile End Old Town, Poplar, St Saviour, Southwark, Lambeth, Wandsworth, Camberwell, Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich.

The rest of the county remained under the name of Middlesex."
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/MDX/census

Doesn't this imply in 1841 it was under Middlesex (or Kent or Surrey for other areas)?

No . The Metropolitan Board of Works was formed in 1855 to properly organize the maintenance and development of roads, sewers, bridges, and eventually the fire brigade and parks which included the City of London, but the actual County of London was not formed until 1889. The Board of Works covered both the City and parts of Middlesex, but the former was never part of the latter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Board_of_Works

[coombs]

Thanks for the 1841 heads up.

The boundaries of London has always been up for debate, even today, some consider Croydon as London but others say Surrey, or Romford as London but others say Essex. However both are in the current London 1965 created county.

In the past when I have typed in Middlesex or London I occasionally get just London City for London and when I typed Middlesex I got the historic county which had places such as Chiswick, Hendon and Twickenham etc.

[gc1]

Hi Coombs
I used to live in Croydon and would joke that I came from The London Borough Of Croydon, Surrey

[coombs]

Hi Coombs
I used to live in Croydon and would joke that I came from The London Borough Of Croydon, Surrey

It is like when someone says "I am from London" and you think Islington?Peckham etc, and when you ask which part they say "High Wycombe". I roll eyes.