Where was this Will proven ?

[Stirrick]

On the Ismay one-name study website, a Will is described for a Miles ISMAY in 1810:
https://ismay.one-name-mwp1.net/groups/web/group203/pafc02.htm#56C2

Miles didn't actually die until 1829, so presumably 1810 is when the Will was written.

There was no Probate for Newcastle-upon-Tyne (unless someone knows better than me), it was part of the Diocese of Durham. However, I've checked Durham, York and Canterbury. And there's no Will.

Does anyone have an idea where this Will might have been proven ?
It's driving me nuts.

[LizzieL]

Could there be two Miles Ismays - father and son? one died in 1810 and the other in 1829

[Stirrick]

It's a thought, Lizzie.

But the Will is definitely for the Miles who died in 1829 - he was born c.1741 which fits with everything we know about him.

The Will obviously exists as it is transcribed in full on the One-Name site.
But I can't find it.

[BushInn1746]

Wills were not always Proved. I have one for Selby Yorkshire (Signed & Witnessed) found with property Deeds.

If there is a Will, the other person may have found it by searching Archives catalogues online, or writing and asking archives.

Authorities sometimes caught up with the family much later, one of my relatives has a Will, Proved about 100 years after her death. Often someone later is forced to deal with it when property is sold or proceeds are divided.

A descriptive and historical account of the town and county of Newcastle upon Tyne, including the borough of Gateshead
By E. Mackenzie, 1827

Miles Ismay, was mentioned on page 412, as being buried at Ballast Hills Dissenters Burial Ground.

Book is on the Hathi Trust website
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044081224156&seq=450&q1=Ismay

Tyne and Wear Archives hold the surviving Burial Registers of Ballast Hills Dissenters Burial Ground.

North East Museums
https://www.northeastmuseums.org.uk/discoverymuseum

The relative left dealing with an old Will may live elsewhere.

Mark

[Alexander.]

On the Ismay ONS website it says is the citation that it was from FamilySearch's film 207622 ("Index to probate records, Newcastle-upon-Tyne"). It is not clear in the catalogue exactly what is found on that film:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/results?q.filmNumber=207622

It might just not have been proved, so not found with the usual probate court records. You might need to access the film (or find someone who could do a lookup) at a Family History Center to find out.

It does say that the records filmed were from City Archives, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Might be worth an email to Tyne & Wear Archives to see if they can help track it down.

[Stirrick]

Thanks Alexander.

I hadn't picked-up on the FS reference.
And, as we all know, they can be annoyingly vague about where information came from.

The Northumberland diocese (including Newcastle-on-Tyne) wasn't separated from Durham until 1882, so long after the introduction of civil probate in 1858.

This all sounds a bit mysterious, but at least I have a lead to follow now.

And thanks for the book link, Mark - that's a real puzzle.
The book was published in 1827 and includes Miles' burial (he was, indeed, a Master Mariner).
However, he was buried at Ballast Hills Cemetery on 1 Mar 1829 !

"Curiouser and curiouser"

Thank you all for responding.

[BushInn1746]

On the Ismay ONS website it says is the citation that it was from FamilySearch's film 207622 ("Index to probate records, Newcastle-upon-Tyne"). It is not clear in the catalogue exactly what is found on that film:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/results?q.filmNumber=207622

It might just not have been proved, so not found with the usual probate court records. You might need to access the film (or find someone who could do a lookup) at a Family History Center to find out.

It does say that the records filmed were from City Archives, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Might be worth an email to Tyne & Wear Archives to see if they can help track it down.

That was a good spot by Alexander about that number being an LDS film number given in the original post link. Shame it is locked online on the LDS Search under Catalogue on their drop down menu.

This is partly in the reply by Alexander above:-

Index to Probate Records, Newcastle upon Tyne. Church of England. Parish Church of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Secondly, also coming up for that film number is the:-

Index to the Sessions Order Books of the Newcastle Quarter Sessions.

So as well as the Probate Court the Will
may have been an exhibit or used in a Court case (separate to the Newcastle Probate Court)?

Some strict Dissenters' and other non CofE would not accept the jurisdiction of the Church of England and some would not have their children baptised by the Church of England either.

I came across a 19th Century Dissenters' case in the newspaper who were being taken to Court by the Parish Church for non-payment of the local church rate.

They would pay the Poor Rate, but refused to pay the church rate.

Mark

[BushInn1746]

Ballast Hills Burial Ground

Ballast Hills Plan
Tyne and Wear Archives

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/949ccff0-783e-4791-850e-cb72a52b2b76

A bit about the Ballast Hills Registers, Cat References, at Reply #5 on the "William Ord" thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784967.msg6400503#msg6400503

Ballast Hills blog
https://blogs.ncl.ac.uk/ballast-hills/

Ballast Hills Gravestone inscriptions were made in 1817 and 1904

Ballast Hills Burial Ground, Grave Stones (1817) by John Bell (completeness of the survey is unknown, I was told)

Inscriptions in Ballast Hills Burial Ground, Newcastle upon Tyne
J Chadwick & E Dodds, 1904

(Some Memorials in the 1817 Inscriptions were missing or unreadable by 1904)

T & W Archives also have surviving Registers, a partial Index and a Book/s.

The 1817 and 1904 M.I., can apparently be purchased online.

Mark

[LizzieL]

I've found a transcript of a baptism of a Miles Ismay s/o Miles bapt in Newcastle -u-T on 09 Mar 1766. Could Miles jnr also have become a master mariner and predeceased his father?(He's got enough time to become one between 1766 and 1810)  He may have been the one who died in 1810 and whose burial is mentioned in a book published in 1827 (two years before Miles snr died).

The will dated 1810 was written by Miles snr and does not mention Miles jnr.. Why not? Because he had just died and that precipitated a new will to be written. On the link on the first post it also says a codicil was added in 1813, so it cannot have been proved / proven in 1810.