Service Number in Royal Irish Rifles

[Stirrick]

I have a soldier, Timothy KELLY, who served during WW1 with the Royal Irish Rifles as a Rifleman.
His entry on the BWM & VM Roll (see attached) shows that he served with the 2nd and 16th Bn.
I have his discharge papers which show that he originally enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers in July,1915.
And a hand-written note in his Pay Book stating that he first served on the Western Front in June,1916.
He was taken prisoner-of-war on 21 March,1918 while with the 16th (Pioneer) RIR.

So far so good.

My problem is with his RIR Service Number - 3/10797.
'3/' would indicate that the number was issued with the 3rd (Reserve) Bn.
And comparable Service Numbers were issued in 1917, which does not align with him first having served overseas in June,1916.
Or am I wrong ?

There are other anomalies.
His discharge papers state that he was aged 16 when he enlisted in 1915 (which is correct). So he wouldn't actually have been eligible to go overseas until he turned 18 in December,1916.
Another note in his Pay Book states that he enlisted in 1914, aged 15. Which is clearly not correct. So was he just wrong in stating that he first went to France in June,1916 ?

I think that's what I'm starting to suspect.
But I could do with another pair of eyes before I write off his notes as 'economical with the truth'.

[Andy J2022]

It would appear from other numbers adjacent to Timothy's which were issued by the 3rd Battalion, that his number was probably issued around late April or early May 1917. Number 3/10768 was issued to Pte David Pendergast on 23 April, with 3/10710 being issued just 12 days earlier.  That said, there is an oddity in that 3/10783 was issued to Pte Guy Boycott on 11 January 1917 at Chichester.

However I can't reconcile the date of April/May 1917 with your evidence that he enlisted in 1915. If he joined the 2nd Battalion (as a Regular) in 1915 then I would have expected him been given a number from that Battalion's block, and to retain that number through his service in the R Irish R.

Timothy's MIC (see below) also refers to the fact that he was later given the new number 7006622 when the new TF numbering scheme was introduced, and under this number he was awarded the General Service Medal with clasp Iraq on 24 February 1925. A more surprising entry on his MIC also notes that he had a Royal Navy number SS/11497 as an Able Seaman. I can find no other details about his supposed Navy service.

On the basis of when his 3/10797 number appears to have been issued and the fact of him being under age in 1916, I think he was almost certainly mistaken when he said he went to France in June 1916. As you are probably aware the 3rd battalion remained in Ireland and England throughout the war and acted as a pool of reserves to fill the service battalions in the operational theatres. The 16th Battalion first went to France in October 1916, so he probably joined them as part of a draft when he was old enough to go overseas.

[Stirrick]

Thanks Andy, good to have some reassurance. ;-)

Tim was demobbed in March,1919, but re-enlisted in the RIR the same month as Rifleman 7006622.
He served another 2 years, now with the 2nd Battalion.
I presume that's how the reference to 2nd Bn made its way to his entry on the BWM & VM Roll.

Then, just to make things even more interesting, he enlisted in the Royal Navy in September,1921 and served for another 5-years ! He was discharged to the Reserve in September,1926, but re-enlisted in June,1936 and went on to serve during WW2.

Talk about an interesting life.

[ShaunJ]

Royal Navy record on FindMyPast:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FADM188%2F1105%2F0%2F0249&parentid=GBM%2FADM188-2%2F015977

and Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60522/records/397953

and at National Archives (two records):

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7085071
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14862994

[Stirrick]

Thanks Shaun

I've already ordered his WW2 RN Service Record from TNA/MoD.
But not holding my breath. ;-)

[Andy J2022]

I don't think you are likely to get any more from the MOD than what Shaun has found.

[Stirrick]

This RN Service Record only covers his initial period of service, Andy.
1921-25.

I've applied for his record from 1936.
Which, of course, is tied down under DP.

[Andy J2022]

Sorry, yes I overlooked his later period of service. You should certainly get more details for WW2.