Conundrum

[royd]

I am looking for the birth of Elizabeth Ann Blackwell, who married Joseph Farrimond in Wigan in 1919. No father is given on the marriage certificate.

I have Elizabeth & Joseph on the 1921 census and 1939 register, where she gives her date of birth as 24/5/1896. They are still in Wigan.

Working backwards, on the 1911 census, I am looking at Elizabeth Ann Blackwell, adopted daughter and George Blackwell, adopted son of William and Amelia Jane Dearden. Both Elizabeth and George are stated to have been born in Salford.

On the 1901, George Blackwell is with this same family as nephew with the spelling of Durden, not Dearden. No sign of Elizabeth Ann.

George marries an Ethel Bryce, with no father stated for him.

Looking for a link with the Dearden (Durden) name, I found a marriage between a John Henry Blackwell and an Elizabeth Ann Durden in 1883, but haven't gone far with that.

I have been on Ancestry, LOPC, GRO etc., but I guess I have missed something, somewhere!

Knowing how good some of you are at spotting the obvious, I thought I would pass it over for perusal, please. Many thanks.

[LizzieW]

Could it be that the children were born to Amelia Jane Dearden before she married.  Maybe look for her marriage to William Dearden to find out her maiden name, or as George Blackwell is shown as nephew on a census, perhaps his mother was a sister of Amelia Jane Dearden.

[Kay99]

Could this be George's birth??

BLACKWELL, GEORGE        DURDEN     
GRO Ref 1889  D Qter  SALFORD  Volume 08D  Page 154

And Bapt ??

George Blackwell
Baptism Date    24 Nov 1889
Baptism Place    Salford, St Phillip, Lancashire, England
Father    George Blackwell - Servant
Mother    Elizabeth Blackwell

I can't see him in 1891 at the moment

[royd]

Thanks.  Yes, I am wondering if there is a connection with either William or Amelia.  That's a line to explore.

I saw that birth and baptism, and wondered the same thing. 

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Bear with me because I know some of the details are quite vague.
William Dearden/Durden is born 19th July 1855 in Manchester and christened at the Cathedral 30.12.1855
His parents are Joseph Durden and Elizabeth nee Trayner.
There is a younger sister Elizabeth Ann Durden born Dec qtr 1857 Manchester.
Joseph Durden married Eliabeth Trayner at Newton All Saints 17th Sep 1854.
fathers William a carrier and Michael Trayner weaver.Joseph is a carrier and witnesses Nicholas Beckett and Maria Trayner.
Unfortunatley it looks like Elizabeth Dearden died age 24 Sep 1858 Manchester and the family were split up.
The daughter Elizabeth is probably living with her grandmother Eliza Durden widow age 52 , in Grove St in 1861
1871 she is a nurse girl at Joshua and Amelia Entwhistles in Welcombe St
1881 with Uncle William and Aunt Caroline 344 Queens Road.

It is the younger sister Elizabeth Ann Durden who married John Henry  Blackwell
Hulme 17 Sep 1883
John Henry 24 marble mason 47 Lavender St s of John marble mason
Elizabeth Ann 23  34 Victoria St d of Joseph dec joiner.
wit Fanny Thompson and Fanny Blackwell

And as you have it George Blackwell is born Dec 1889 in Salford.

Which is where we hit problems
There is no birth registration for Elizabeth Ann in 1896
John Henry Blackwell and Elizabeth Ann are not together on the 1891 and 1901 censuses
John Henry Blackwell seems to have died 2 Oct  1884 buried Manchester Southern Cemetery ,Chortlton Cum Hardy ,packer born 1859 .Which fits with his birth to parents John and Ann Blackwell  19.6.1859 and his appearances on the 1861-1881 censuses.
George Blackwell's possible baptism 24.11.1889 st Phillips Salford
George s of George and Elizabeth Blackwell 24 Ordsall Lane  servant.
I think after John's death in 1884 Elizabeth found herself a new partner and her two children were with him.The Christening for George looks just a little too pat.Was the father just made up?
I can't find Elizabeth Ann Blackwell /Durden after her marriage on the censuses or with a death.But I am confident that she is Elizabeth Ann Blackwell's mother.

And finally just to add to the confusion there is this
Elizabeth Ann Blackwell bapt 19.6.1895 born 26th May 1895 at Rhyl
parents John Henry Blackwell and Elizabeth 10 Greenfield Place labourer Rhyl .GRO mmn Halewood and no connections to the Deardon/Durdens at all .A whole new family born in Rhyl.Different grandparents etc.
But it must be a coincidence .
Because if you go back to Elizabeth's marriage 1919 she does leave her father's name blank and there would be no need to do that if she was the one in Rhyl.
I think she must be George Blackwell's sister and Elizabeth Durden's daughter ,born after Jophn Henry Blackwell's death.

What does everyone else think?

Ciderdrinker

[royd]

Well, I for one, think you have done an amazing job.  I had seen the name Traynor last night, but haven't done anything with it due to time constraints.  I had noticed the Welsh Elizabeth when I first looked at GRO, but thought it would be too far-fetched, although many mining families did move from Wales to Wigan at that time.

Very grateful indeed.  R.

[softly softly]

I really enjoy rc's who go out on a limb to try and solve an issue. I was going down a similar route as yourself ciderdrinker but had not got anywhere near your thinking. I do believe you are correct with what you have.Well done.

I have just found her GRO birth, 24.5.1896

SS

[softly softly]

Here she is in all her glory, surname HYDE

SS

[Kay99]

Fascinating developments.   We had visitors but was just about to post this birth cert - no father named!