6th Fortress Company, Royal Engineers

[cyclamen]

I have recently been doing some research on a Frederick Richard Winkel Crump who married my great aunt in 1922 in Dorking, Surrey. I have always been curious as to how the couple met as my great aunt lived in Northern Ireland and Winkel Crump (the name we knew him by) was English.

 I was trying to find  where he was living before his marriage and to my surprise (and delight) the 1921 census showed him in the Royal Engineers and resident in Victoria Barracks, Belfast. He was a Private, a Writer in the Corps of Military Acc, 6th Fortress Company, Royal Engineers.

I have been unable to find a service number for him and wonder if anyone might be able to help? With a name like that I am almost sure I have the correct man! However, although he is the right age, his place of birth does not seem to be correct. I have his baptismal record in Middlesex.

I would  be interested to know what Winkel as a 'writer' in the army might have been doing  and would also like to know when this company of the Royal Engineers began their tour of duty in Ireland. 

Any help would be gratefully received.

[ALAMO2008]

Where does Winkel come from?
Frederick Richard Walter Crump born 1887 Mother's Maiden Name McKenzie
He Married Emma Louise Kellow December 1913 she Died in Childbirth September Quarter 1914 giving Biirth to Lawrence F Crump
He Remarried Martha Moody in 1922 in Dorking where she was Presumably working
as she was from Northern Ireland  -

[Andy J2022]

He was a pay clerk. The Corps of Military Accountants only existed for a brief period between November 1919 and July 1925 before being absorbed into the Royal Army Pay Corps. This means that he was attached to the Royal Engineers at the time of the 1921 Census and assuming that he served on would probably have been posted to another unit at a later stage.

There are quite a few Frederick Crumps who served in the Army around this time, however as he was still serving after 1920 his service record will have stayed with the MOD, and will not be among the records which were destroyed by fire in WW2. The bad news is that his records will be among around 10 million or so others which are being transferred to the National Archives. The good news is that because he was born in 1886 or 1887 you won't have to wait for his record to be released once it has been catalogued, as he was born more than 115 years ago. You can submit an FOI request to TNA but be prepared for bit of a delay as they will need to find his documents among all those which have not yet been indexed. Alternatively check to see if Ancestry have already digitised his record.

I assume you already know about his divorce in 1956 from his third(?) wife Kathleen whom he had married in October 1949.

[Andy J2022]

Just to add, currently his service record does not appear to have been catalogued by TNA: Discovery search

[cyclamen]

Your information  is very helpful. Thankyou for that!  I had tried to find him on Ancestry but as you say there were quite a few Frederick Crumps but none that seemed to be the right man.

His occupation at marriage on  7th June 1922 is given as an accountant so I presume at that stage he must have returned to civilian life.

Yes, I know about his third marriage and subsequent divorce to Kathleen O’Brien. She was also a divorcee. At one stage I thought I had a bigamist in the family but the marriage certificate states he was divorced and gives the name of my great aunt!!

Thanks again.

[Andy J2022]

There is a good chance that if he served on until 1925 when his old Corps of Military Accountants was disbanded, he may have been made compulsorily redundant (see this question in the House of Commons from the time). Howevere since he would have been aged 38 in 1925 he was probably due to leave the Army anyway.

You might also like to try tracking down copies of the Regimental Journal of the Corps of Military Accountants entited The Balance. More details here: ICAEW. The British Library holds copies.

[ALAMO2008]

Your information  is very helpful. Thankyou for that!  I had tried to find him on Ancestry but as you say there were quite a few Frederick Crumps but none that seemed to be the right man.

His occupation at marriage on  7th June 1922 is given as an accountant so I presume at that stage he must have returned to civilian life.

Yes, I know about his third marriage and subsequent divorce to Kathleen O’Brien. She was also a divorcee. At one stage I thought I had a bigamist in the family but the marriage certificate states he was divorced and gives the name of my great aunt!!

Thanks again.

There are 12 Trees on Ancestry for Frederick some Private Trees but they all have him Mixed with Christian Names Walter and Winkel  - he was born with Walter but used Winkel in later life.