Author Topic: William & Catherine Sullivan (nee O'Shea) of Greenwich Village  (Read 233 times)

Offline shellyesq

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,960
    • View Profile
William died in 1917 and was apparently survived by Maria.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WC6-C99?lang=en

He was in the City Home for the Aged and Infirm from 29 May 1916 through his death and Episcopal records indicate he was buried there.  The record of his entry to the home says his wife Mary Chatterton lived at 406 W. 38th Street, and his parents' names match the other records. 

This is William & Mary/Maria on the 1915 NY state census.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K9KK-GHD?lang=en  The surname for Mary should be Chatterton, as the next family on the census is Flugler.  It said she had been in the US for 46 and was a citizen.  They were at 358 W. 45th Street.

Offline shellyesq

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,960
    • View Profile
Children of Maria Sullivan & William Chatterton:

Unnamed female b. 20 Feb. 1890 - https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/364562  It lists Maria as the mother of 5 (I think) children, two of which were living

Cressie b. 1 Nov. 1893 - https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/644598

Death of daughter Grace on 7 Feb. 1895, age 1 (maybe Cressie = Grace?) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6F-H9N?lang=en

Online dweber1429

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Morning!
Wow, you are fast! I'm still working through the ideas of early yesterday.  Here's what I worked on in no particular order.

More Children:
Kate correctly reported the # of children until the last son Harold's birth cert. For what that's worth.

I've scoured NYC Historical Vital Stats searching for birth certs for Ed, Helen, Lillian & Celia in the past. This time I searched "Sullivan" 1882-1905 and reviewed obvious names + variations + Male & Female for parents William & Kate. Anna Sullivan, b. 25 Nov. 1895 is too close to Kathleen/Catherine's b. 10 Sep 1895. However, I only have the NY state index to identify Kath/Cath's birth (note: at Cedar Point, NY? so I'm not confident). Anna's address would add another location but they moved often. Elizabeth Sullivan, b. 23 May 1891 is the best possibility.  I'll hold on to these and reach out to cousins for recollections as we've never known about more than the 8.

FultonsHistory
Wonderful resource!  Brilliant finding William "H" Sullivan. Details all match - both the street and son Harold shot by the police. It's the first I've seen of William Sr!! I've searched Newspapers.com desperate for an Obit but no luck. Also added articles about Harold's death. I had some but these helped make sense of some family lore (the speak-easy).

William "H" did make me doublecheck William's middle name. William Jr's birth cert clearly includes "John" and the Jr so I'll assume it's a typo.


JohnGrenham
I tested the surnames overlap and looked to Cork (my dna suggests Munster: SW Munster and several areas of Cork). Sullivan/Simpson might have overlapped in Ballyfoly or St Anne Shanalon Parishes.  Just noticed I crossed the wrong surnames. I should have used Simpson/Shea. I'll try today

Marriages
Thank you for the marriage certs for Kathleen and Fred (from this I'll assume Kathleen is her correct name not Catherine).  I'd found William Jr & Marion's. Incidentally, their son Harold Edward was baptized at Judson but the church had a fire and the records were lost. I'd still love to find William & Catherine's marriage. Hoping it would lead me to a location for their parents.

stevemorse.org & the Jul 1873 passenger list
I did go down the rabbit hole of this passenger list. It certainly seemed to work. I tried to follow Timothy & family but I started to get twisted around. Meanwhile you all kept researching Jeremiah and Sarah. I'm going to abandon this and jump in to catch up on all the work you've done on Jeremiah & Sarah, and Maria today.

Mt Olivet Cemetery.
A couple months ago I found an obscure website https://www.thornesmith.net/contact.html dedicated to Celia's husband Thorne Smith.  Here I found the cemetery map. I phoned Mt Olivet and they confirmed Celia, Thorne, Kathleen, Fred, William & Catherine are buried together, and all their b. & d. dates. I wasn't confident about William Srs Death cert in NYC Historical Vital Stats. It shows his occupation as Food Inspector for Bellview Hospital. All census data shows he was a shipping clerk. However, Mt Olivet matched the dates so I began to believe. Adding you're insight about the reporter (in this case Lillian) not correctly remembering William's parent's names has really made me feel confident... and then article!  Thank you

Next:
Today I'll follow up on all your brilliant work about Maria and Jeremiah/Sarah. I'm really excited to follow your trail!  I can't thank you enough.

And I'll report back
Diane



Offline shellyesq

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,960
    • View Profile
New York City keeps its records separately from New York state, so typically, searching New York state indexes won't yield anything from New York City.  The entry for Catherine for in the New York state birth index says she was born in Grassy Point, which is in the town on Stony Point in Rockland County.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassy_Point,_New_York  It's not so far away that it's impossible, but probably not likely.  There's a Catherine Sullivan in Stony Point in the 1900 census who was born in Sep. 1895 and has different parents - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSL1-GBH?lang=en - so I think that's more likely the one you found and not your Catherine. 

In case it helps, there is a geographical birth index for New York City for that time frame that can be checked by address, although it can take a lot of scrolling through.  More info here - https://www.reclaimtherecords.org/records-request/18/   

Regarding obituaries in New York City, sometimes it cost money to put them in the papers, so that may have made them less likely to be there for families of modest means. 


Online oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,040
    • View Profile
Your tree says you found William in 1880. Could you post the link to his 1880 Census?

Could Anna have been renamed Kathleen - maybe when baptized or later on? Everything matches the family on the birth record of Anna. What is the source for her date of birth?

-----
I wonder who this William H Sullivan is.
from https://www.italiangen.org/databases/search/?db=nycgroom
112120   Sullivan   William H   Jul    11   1881   2368   Kings   S415
(The same information is at ancestry, from  New York, U.S., Extracted Marriage Index, 1866-1937)

When you search for that certificate number on the NYC Vital Records site, it is really Charles Summers and Christianna Riley, but their certificate says they married 1 September 1881. And they are also indexed with certificate number 2368.

searching italiangen.org in the brides' index for #2368 in Kings Co in 1881 does not find anything.
searching ancestry.com for the exact date in exactly the Bronx does not find anything that would match.


and this is  not them. it also was indexed under William only.
marriage    Sullivan   William           Oct    19   1881   2754   Kings           S415

I haven't figured out if you can browse the certificates at the NYC Vital Records site or not.

Online oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,040
    • View Profile
Some more dots to connect. Hopefully something will click to positively prove we have the right family.

** Sullivan civil records in Kilbrogan, Bandon RD, Cork
*** SRD: Bandon Union, RD: Bandon Dispensary, Co Cork
January 8, 1864,
at Kilbrogan School House
Eliza Jane Sullivan, dau of Jeremiah Sullivan, occupation: school master, of Kilbrogan School House, and Sarah Sullivan, formerly Simpson. informant: the father
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=5fc6443d7a-7180012

[is she the Elizabeth Sullivan who was a witness to Maria Sullivan's 2nd marriage? Or was that another Elizabeth S.?

*** SRD: Bandon Union, RD: Bandon Dispensary, Co Cork
November 8, 1865
in Kilbrogan
male Sullivan, son of Jeremiah Sullivan, occupation: school master, of Kilbrogan School House, and Sarah Sullivan, formerly Simpson. informant: the father
baptism name added in last column: Richard, January 3, 1866
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=5fc6443d7a-7035055

*** SRD: Bandon, RD: Bandon Dispensary, Co Cork
October 8, 1868
in Kilbrogan
Frances, dau of Jeremiah Sullivan, occupation: school master, of Kilbrogan School House, and Sarah Sullivan, formerly Simpson. informant: the father

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=5fc6443d7a-6572817

There is a Kilbrogan Townland in Kilbrogan Parish, Cork
http://www.bandon-genealogy.com/kilbrogan_townlands.htm
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/COR/Kilbrogan

*** is this their Richard Sullivan
Date of Death:    1870
Group Registration ID:    N/R
SR District/Reg Area:    Bandon
Deceased Age at Death:    5
Returns Year:    1870
Returns Quarter:    3
Returns Volume No:    15
Returns Page No:    3

There are no images yet for early civil death records
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=ea0ad8543e-720676

a date for that child's death:
Richard Sullivan
Gender    Male
Marital Status    Single
Age    5
Birth Date    1865
Death Date    15 Jul 1870
Death Place    Cork Co., Ireland
FHL Film Number    101724
Reference ID    v 15 p 3
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/collections/9903/records/40111?_phcmd=u(%27https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/?name=richard_sullivan&birth=1865_bandon-cork-ireland_10039528&searchMode=advanced&successSource=Search&queryId=65e10431-a543-4480-90fa-41b0773f47c4%27,%27successSource%27)

*** is this their Frances Sullivan
Estimated Birth Year    abt 1869
Date of Registration    1869
Death Age    0
Registration District    Bandon
Volume    15
Page    4
FHL Film Number    101584

https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/collections/2534/records/1017351
and
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=ea0ad8543e-813519

*** Is this Sarah Simpson's husband
searched deaths from 1867 to 1873

Death record for Jeremiah Sullivan
Name:    Jeremiah Sullivan
Date of Death:    1871
Group Registration ID:    N/R
SR District/Reg Area:    Bandon
Deceased Age at Death:    42
Returns Year:    1871
Returns Quarter:    3
Returns Volume No:    15
Returns Page No:    4

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=ea0ad8543e-631173

no deaths found for Sarah Sullivan, 1867 to 1873


Online oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,040
    • View Profile
a few thoughts on Sarah Simpson.
Sarah was of full age when marrying on 7 October 1851. Unless she lied about her age, she was at least 21, so born before 7 October 1830. She had a child in 1868, so she was born no earlier than approximately 1823.

----
both she and her husband Jeremiah were teachers. It was a national education system, if I am not mistaken, and I don't think a new teacher was necessarily assigned to his/her home district. So both of them could have come from anywhere else in Ireland, although Jeremiah Sullivan is a Cork-sounding name.

There were actually a lot of Simpsons in the North, acc. to John Grenham's site.

Online oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,040
    • View Profile

Presumably they were married in Sarah's home church at the time. It says "Holy Trinity." There is currently a Holy Trinity Catholic cathedral in Cork, but there is/was a Holy Trinity (Christ Church) Church of Ireland Church there also:

The parish records are still in existence, and available in Dublin for that parish in Cork City and for whichever parish the 3 children on the civil records were born in. They were born in Kilbrogan Townland, which is in Kilbrogan Parish, but here is the information for both possible parishes in Bandon RD, Cork

THE LIST of CHURCH OF IRELAND PARISH REGISTERS
A Colour-coded Resource Accounting For What Survives; Where It Is;
& With Additional Information of Copies, Transcripts and Online Indexes

When you find Bandon on the list, it says "see Ballymodan and Kilbrogan."

Both were in yellow, both were followed by an "M"
Kilbrogan,   Diocese of Cork, baptisms 1752-1973, marriages 1753-1969, burials 1754-1992   
Ballymodan, Diocese of Cork, baptisms 1695-1878, marriages 1695-1996, burials 1695-1878 

yellow = RCB - Original records held by the Representative Church Body Library, Churchtown, Dublin 14

M = Microfilm copy available in the Reading Room of
the NAI only. See card index and bound diocesan
lists for further details. Note the dates of registers
covered by the films may not be those of the
originals as recorded by Miss Griffith, nor may they
be the same dates as for those registers now
deposited in the RCB Library. In most instances no
filming was undertaken of 20th-century registers

https://www.churchofireland.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf




------
https://www.corkrecords.com/registers.htm

The Representative Church Body Library, Dublin, Collection of Cork Parish Registers

The original Parish Registers for most of the Church of Ireland parishes are held at The Representative Church Body Library in Dublin. These only represent those parish registers which survived the Four Courts fire in Dublin during the 1922 Civil War because they were still being held locally at the time.

City of Cork:
Holy Trinity (Christ Church): Baptisms: 1643-1976. Marriages: 1646 - 1974. Burials: 1644 - 1878.
[But I don't think the parish record will tell you any more than what is on the civil record, but I'm not positive.]

County Cork:
Ballymodan: Baptisms: 1695 - 1878. Marriages: 1695 - 1996. Burials: 1695 - 1878.
Kilbrogan: Baptisms: 1752 - 1973. Marriages: 1753 - 1969. Burials: 1754 - 1992.

They are not available online.

Online oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,040
    • View Profile
For what it's worth, at this stage, or for future reference:
 Griffith's Valuation was  taken in Cork in 1851-3;

No Griffiths Valuation records match your search.
You searched for
First Name: john
Family Name: simpson
County: CORK

No Griffiths Valuation records match your search.
You searched for
First Name: jeremiah
Family Name: sullivan
County: CORK
Parish: KILBROGAN

There are 3 or 4 men named Jeremiah Sullivan in Ballymodan. none rent acreage. all just rent houses, or w/ a small garden. So any of them could be a teacher (who wouldn't be farming.)