Author Topic: Two cryptic words - 1800s French  (Read 336 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« on: Saturday 03 May 25 18:39 BST (UK) »
Hello Rootschatters,

I have tried running this image through AI and through Transkribus and neither was able to give me an answer.  Attached is an image of a margin entry at the bottom of the last page of a Notarial Act.  I have the top line but can't make any sense out of the lower line.  Can anyone help, please?

The top line is
troisième et dernier.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Online Zefiro

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 May 25 19:21 BST (UK) »
Very difficult to answer this one.
I guess it's the first time ever you've found something like that at this specific place?
I unfortunately don't have as much experience with notarial acts as you.

My only guess would be it's a name, because the way the second word ends is very typical of one's signature.

Offline PatLac

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 May 25 19:30 BST (UK) »
Without any context it's difficult to say but first word looks like Gole
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Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 May 25 20:29 BST (UK) »
Hello Zefiro and PatLac,

Thank you both, so much, for taking a look at this little cryptic puzzle for me.  Between both of your responses, I think I may have cracked it.

I took a look at the notary's signature on the document - his name was Francois Habrial - and sure enough he has added a fancy swirl at the end of his name but before adding the word 'Notary', which is identical to the swirl that follows the "h" in the original image.  I've attached an image of his signature showing that swirl.  That same swirl is also used at the bottom of each page under the text of the page.  So, I think the second word is the notary's first letter of his last name, "H" with the swirl.

One phrase in French that I know of that could possibly explain the first word in that second line is "à côté de", or 'by' in the sense of a person attending to the document.  So, I am wondering if that word is a hastily and poorly written "à côté".

Putting the two parts together it would make sense that the Notary would have to initial each two-sided folio in the document.

Does this make sense to one or both of you?
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE


Online Zefiro

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 May 25 20:50 BST (UK) »
à côté de isn't something you'd find on a document, because it means 'next to, adjacent to'

The English sentence 'I live by the river' could be translated as 'J'habite à côté de la rivière'.
BUT
You can't use it for the English 'by' in sentences like 'It was done by him', because this needs another French preposition, in this case 'par'.

Online Zefiro

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 03 May 25 20:53 BST (UK) »
Forgot to make clear that the reading of the second word is correct, but I still don't know what's meant by the first word.
I'm not sure what the first letter might be...

Offline PatLac

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 03 May 25 21:01 BST (UK) »
ROLE

PROCÉDURE. Recto et verso d'une page d'acte notarié, d'expédition de jugement, cahier des charges, conclusions.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/role
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Offline joger

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 04 May 25 08:28 BST (UK) »
The second snippet being  : habrial fancy swirl notaire

the first one may be : troisième et dernier role paraphe ( signed initial for habrial) or paraphe and fancy swirl

Offline MichelBaboulinet

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Re: Two cryptic words - 1800s French
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 04 May 25 22:39 BST (UK) »
hello there, newbie here but I have done and read a fair bit of old french on manuscript, being french myself. Do you happen to have a bigger portion of the document to share? happy to have a look at it.
I am unsure that "a cote" would be what is written in the second line, but a signature wouldn't be surprising indeed.

I am not sure Role is the second line first word myself, but "ole" is definitely present to me. The first letter before "ole" looks like an A to me, but that makes less sense. Hence my curiosity to compare other writings from the document if available to see what other letter they wrote in a similar way.