Emily DOWNES - Birmingham

[mckha489]

MARRIAGE 23 May 1858 Fazeley, St Paul
Bride - Sarah Atkins, age 21.  Her father – Robert ATKINS
Groom - John Downs Ramsdale, age 24. His father – Abraham RAMSDALE

Image is on FindMyPast
Both John and Abraham are recorded as Downs on line 1, with Ramsdale squeezed underneath
John signs as John D. Ramsdale. Everybody is a Labourer

witnesses are Eliza Atkins and Abraham Atkins they both marked as did Sarah.

William A. in the census is William Abraham. on GRO as DOWENS

[mckha489]

John's baptism maybe?  Says he is of Shenstone in 1881

this baptism St John The Baptist, Shenstone

July 16th 1833 - John son of Abraham & Ann RAMSHILL  Labourer.
Abode = Footherley

March 11th 1838 a daughter Eliza baptised. All details same except now RAMSDALE

Abraham RAMSHILL & Ann DOWNS married at Shenstone 6th July 1833. Both OTP and both marked. Witnesses were Mary JONES & Thomas ADLAM. both marked.

[mckha489]

1841 census

Abraham RAMSELL 25 Ag Lab born in county. (Getting an idea for how they pronounced this)
Ann 25
John 8
Ann 2
Eliza 6 months
Philip DOWNS 15

(the P of Robert P DOWNS in earlier post is Philip)

1851 census

still at Footherley as RAMSALL - more children
Abraham  42 born Whateley, Warwickshire
But his wife is now named Mary 37. born Walsall Wood, Staffs
and a John HILTON age 18 also born Walsall Wood is visiting

[Neale1961]

(EDIT - Some of this is repetition of above, but was typing it up, so posted anyway.)


The census gives John Downs birth around 1834 in Shenstone, Staffordshire
His father on his marriage is named Abraham Ramsdale


MARRIAGE 6 Jul 1833 Shenstone Staffs
Abraham RAMSHILL to Ann DOWNS


There are baptisms in Shenstone Staffs for children of Abraham RAMSDALE / RAMSHILL (Abraham is a labourer, and abode is Footherley)


John Ramshill - 15 July 1833 (bapt 9 days after marriage of parents Abraham and Ann)
George Ramsall – 28 June 1835. (parents are Abraham and Ann) - Died 14 May 1838 burnt death.
Eliza Ramsdale – 11 Mar 1838 (parents are Abraham and Ann)

BURIAL – Shenstone 29 Mar 1838
Anne RAMSDALE age 26, abode Footherley

2nd MARRIAGE 26 June 1838 Aston Birmingham
Abraham Ramsdale (widower) labourer To Mary Hilton (spinster)

Further Baptisms in Shenstone:-
Ann Ramsdale –  21 Apr 1839 (parents are Abraham and Mary)
Eliza Ramsdale – 27 Dec 1840 (parents are Abraham and Mary)
Emma Ramsdale – 2 Apr 1843 (parents are Abraham and Mary)



1841 census Abraham Ramsell, Footherley, Shenstone
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQTS-5SK?lang=en
Son John is age 8
Note Philip Downs in the same house


1851 census Abraham Ramsell, Shenstone
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGG3-Z2C?lang=en

[mckha489]

Aug 16th 1891 - there is a burial at Shenstone of an Abraham RAMSALL age 79 of Shenstone Woodend 

[Neale1961]

Aug 16th 1891 - there is a burial at Shenstone of an Abraham RAMSALL age 79 of Shenstone Woodend

Adding a bit ......

1891 census Shenstone, Staffordshire
Abraham RAMSELL age 80 is living with his son George


Death for Abraham Ramsall 1891
Burial 16 Aug 1891 Shenstone

[mckha489]

There is an image on FindMyPast  - PR for Kingsbury, Warwickshire 

At the bottom of the page in November 1812 is  (day of month after 22nd but not clear)

All it says is

John Ramsall was born 1808 November
Abraham Ramsall was born 1801 July

No parents noted. Yet they seem to know when they were born.

[Neale1961]

On Abraham's second marriage in 1838 his father is given as Thomas Ramsdale, a labouer.


Transcription of the baptism gives mother as Elizabeth
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5f903531f493fd2d872f1f47/abraham-ramsall-baptism-warwickshire-kingsbury-1812-04-19?locale=en

Abraham's baptism is on the same day as his brother John.

[Neale1961]

Children of Thomas and Elizabeth RAMSELL / RAMSAL (various spellings) at Kingsbury
Edward William 1799
Isaac 1801
Thomas 1803
Elizabeth 1806
Richard 1807
John 1812 (born 1808)
Abraham 1812 (born 1801)

MARRIAGE 15 Oct 1798 Kingsbury
Elizabeth COURTS to Thomas RAMSDALE
Both OTP, both sign X
Witnesses- Sarah Courts and Thomas Myring