Phoebe Hughes / Davis & Children

[TraceyD]

I am once again looking for further information on my great grandmother Phoebe Davis / Hughes, who was a flower hawker/gypsy, and I am much further along with her than before and have discovered her family (parents and siblings) but there are still some brick walls and mysteries to be resolved regarding her children. 

Phoebe was born Phoebe Hughes in 1868 in Chatham, Kent, and on the 7th April 1899 she arrived at the Wandsworth workhouse where she had my Grandfather John Hughes Davis on the 6th May 1899.  On her sons birth certificate Phoebe stated that she was a flower hawker and gave her address as 11, Point Pleasant, Wandsworth, London, a lodging house.   Phoebe left the Wandsworth workhouse on the 20th May 1899,  leaving her newly born son behind.

On the workhouse records it stated that she arrived with another child (name unknown), also that
in 1893 Phoebe had given birth to child (male) on Hastings Heath (?) which sadly died at the age of three weeks.  It was after this she ran away from home to be with her eldest sister.

With my continuing research into Phoebe I have located a 'Phoebe Davis' correct age in Newington Workhouse, Westmoreland Road in 1891, where she had given birth to a girl also called Phoebe Davis on the 17th July 1891 (admitted to the workhouse on the 18/07/1891 and discharged on the 06/08/1891).  I am curious to know more about this child and whether it is possible this is the child that was with her in 1899?

Phoebe also had another child 'Charlotte Hughes' on the 28th February 1908 in Dartford, Kent. At Dartford workhouse, 37 West Hill, Dartford, Kent. On Charlotte’s birth certificate Phoebe gave her address as The Old Gaol, Lowfield Street, Dartford and her occupation was a Flower Hawker. I am also struggling to find further information about this child? Although I have located her on the 1911 and 1939 census.

Any help/information would be greatly appreciated. TIA

[osprey]

possible burial for daughter Phoebe ?
Joyce Green Hospital Cemetery, Dartford 26 March 1902 Phoebe Davis aged 11

[TraceyD]

Hi Osprey,

How sad, that is of course possible, will have a look to see if I can find a death certificate.

Thank you

[Francy76]

I have had a look and have found some info but not sure if it’s the same Phoebe Hughes.
Do you know who raised your grandfather and where the surname Davis comes from?

[TraceyD]

Hi Francy76,

On the 1901 census my grandfather and his parents Phoebe and John Davis were living at number 4 Short Road, West Ham, Essex, and his father's occupation was listed as a hawker.

In 1906 he was found and put on a charge of ‘wandering’ and admitted to St Vincent’s School for young boys, Whitstable, Kent. At the age of ten (1909) he was transferred to Vincent’s Industrial School, Dartford, Kent, and was discharged on the 19th January 1915.

The surname Davis comes from his father John Michael Davis born on the 12/02/1881 Brentford, Middlesex and died in January 1958 Kensington, London.

Any help on Phoebe and her children would be much appreciated, as even after all these years there are still so many unknowns that I am keen to crack.

Thank you

Edited: due to typo put year in twice

[Milliepede]

Are Phoebe and Charlotte together as Hughes in 1911?  I can’t see Charlotte after that, what happens to Phoebe?

[TraceyD]

Yes, they were at 27 West Street, Gravesend, Kent in 1911 - it's after then I can find no trace of her, or the two girls I believe she had (Charlotte and Phoebe).

I am not sure if the Charlotte Hughes I have found in 1939 is correct.

[Francy76]

Thanks for your reply. I believe we are talking about the same person.
Prior to John Davis, Phoebe was married to Isaac Frondigoun in 1891, with whom she had four children. She also gave birth to a son called Joseph in 1897 who unfortunately died soon after birth.
I wonder if this is the child you were referring to but the workhouse got the year wrong?
I have a copy of the marriage certificate and a little bit more info but not sure if you already have these? Happy to send them to you if you would like x

[Milliepede]

Frondigoun birth registrations with mothers name Hughes in Gravesend

Lydia Gertrude Dec 1889
Isaac Richard Mar 1891
Phoebe Sep 1892
Mary Ann Dec 1893
Joseph Sep 1897

there may be others with different surname spelling

You may have it but there is a divorce petition brought by Isaac in 1896

all very confusing but in 1901 Isaac is with children Gertrude 12 Isaac 10 May 12

Is this the same Phoebe do you think?  The divorce mentions a Joseph Banham