Author Topic: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???  (Read 238 times)

Offline Rowan Tree

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Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« on: Sunday 20 April 25 13:47 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm definitely getting better at deciphering handwriting but the witnesses on this 1850 marriage certificate are a little tricky.

I've got James and a surname ending in wistle.
And Jane possibly Brougham?

Many thanks, Rowan  :)
BARNETT: Hulme, Manchester & Oldham, LAN
BLACK: Grasmere, WES & Prescot, LAN
COTTAM, HEATON & LITTLER: Ashton-in-Makerfield, LAN
DIEHL: Germany & LAN
FORSHAW: Haydock, LAN
HARRISON: Newton-le-Willows, Haydock & Parr, LAN
JACKSON: Newton-le-Willows, LAN & Somerford Booths, CHS
PARKINSON: LAN
PHILLIPS: Chester, CHS & Manchester, LAN
MADDOCKS: WLS, CHS & LAN
ROSCOE: Sutton/Prescot, LAN

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 20 April 25 13:53 BST (UK) »
James - possibly Entwistle  :-\  And I'd agree with Brougham for Jane.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Rowan Tree

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 April 25 14:34 BST (UK) »
James - possibly Entwistle  :-\  And I'd agree with Brougham for Jane.
Thank you, BumbleB.

I really wanted a second pair of eyes with this one.

Rowan  :)
BARNETT: Hulme, Manchester & Oldham, LAN
BLACK: Grasmere, WES & Prescot, LAN
COTTAM, HEATON & LITTLER: Ashton-in-Makerfield, LAN
DIEHL: Germany & LAN
FORSHAW: Haydock, LAN
HARRISON: Newton-le-Willows, Haydock & Parr, LAN
JACKSON: Newton-le-Willows, LAN & Somerford Booths, CHS
PARKINSON: LAN
PHILLIPS: Chester, CHS & Manchester, LAN
MADDOCKS: WLS, CHS & LAN
ROSCOE: Sutton/Prescot, LAN

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 20 April 25 21:02 BST (UK) »
I agree with Entwistle, the other looks like Brouyhum to me (as written)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/name-origin?surname=broughum&msockid=04ecfba44360678a20e3e81f4280668c

But !! as the writer has made the 'g' look like a 'y' as with the 'u' could be an 'a'- therefore

Brougham = probable most likely
Broughum = possible ?
Brouyhum = as written or looks like  ???
Brouyham = vaguely possible but unlikely
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth


Offline Rowan Tree

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 20 April 25 23:43 BST (UK) »
Thank you. I really appreciate your reply. That's genuinely very helpful.

Rowan  :)
BARNETT: Hulme, Manchester & Oldham, LAN
BLACK: Grasmere, WES & Prescot, LAN
COTTAM, HEATON & LITTLER: Ashton-in-Makerfield, LAN
DIEHL: Germany & LAN
FORSHAW: Haydock, LAN
HARRISON: Newton-le-Willows, Haydock & Parr, LAN
JACKSON: Newton-le-Willows, LAN & Somerford Booths, CHS
PARKINSON: LAN
PHILLIPS: Chester, CHS & Manchester, LAN
MADDOCKS: WLS, CHS & LAN
ROSCOE: Sutton/Prescot, LAN

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 April 25 12:47 BST (UK) »
There is another point to consider:

Is the first name June or Jane if Brougham is accepted or June if Broughum is accepted or visa versa
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline Rowan Tree

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Re: Witnesses on 1850 Marriage Cert???
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 April 25 14:43 BST (UK) »
When I first read the witnesses' names, I initially saw the name June.

I'm keeping June in mind, but I'm also wondering if June was a given name in this time period. I'm honestly not sure. I'll have to look into this one a little more, I think...

With reference to the first witness, James ENTWISTLE. I have now found some extra evidence to backup the name of ENTWISTLE. I have the bride & groom, as a married couple on the 1861 census as follows:

102 Portland Street, Liverpool
Robert PHILLIPS, Head, married, age 43 (c. 1818), engine fitter, Chester, Cheshire
Ann PHILLIPS, Wife, married, age 37 (c. 1824), Manchester, Lancashire
Ellen ENTWISTLE, Niece, age 3 (c. 1858), Chorley, Lancashire

I've looked for the birth reg. of Ellen and her mother's maiden name is RYDER.
The bride on the marriage certificate is Hannah RYDER.
I've not looked at the RYDERs as it's the PHILLIPS I'm researching.
The groom, Robert PHILLIPS, is the brother of my ancestor, Martha PHILLIPS.

Speaking of Robert PHILLIPS...
I ordered a digital image of what I hoped would be his death certificate yesterday.
I've ordered quite a few digital birth/death images. £3 is much more affordable than a £12 certificate, and when I've ordered the wrong birth/death, £3 is an easier loss.
Well, I looked at the digital image for Robert PHILLIPS' death and was surprised to find a death of a Margaret MURRAY! I've reported the error to the GRO.
BARNETT: Hulme, Manchester & Oldham, LAN
BLACK: Grasmere, WES & Prescot, LAN
COTTAM, HEATON & LITTLER: Ashton-in-Makerfield, LAN
DIEHL: Germany & LAN
FORSHAW: Haydock, LAN
HARRISON: Newton-le-Willows, Haydock & Parr, LAN
JACKSON: Newton-le-Willows, LAN & Somerford Booths, CHS
PARKINSON: LAN
PHILLIPS: Chester, CHS & Manchester, LAN
MADDOCKS: WLS, CHS & LAN
ROSCOE: Sutton/Prescot, LAN