Place name Co Leitrim

[Elwyn Soutter]

The 1871 Selkirk marriage shows Phelan and wife Agnes as both alive at that date. That’s helpful because death registration only started in Ireland in 1864. But now you know you are searching after that (assuming the parents died in Ireland). It’s possible Phelan & Agnes also moved to Scotland with Mary. Have you checked for that?

[Beavances]

I have checked the Scottish records for Phelan & Agnes' names names but have not found anything. I will check the Irish records and let you know if I find anything. Thanks for the suggestions.

[shanreagh]

I have checked the Scottish records for Phelan & Agnes' names names but have not found anything. I will check the Irish records and let you know if I find anything. Thanks for the suggestions.

The 1834 Tithe applotment records has a record for Phelin, and Griffiths has at least 80 McPartland etc names.  have you checked all these?

[Beavances]

Hi Shanreagh I managed yesterday to locate the Tithe record showing Phelin McPartlan and noted that the land in his name was 'of poor quality'. With the Griffiths Valuations I have located some of the names but need to do more work on that.
My last comment about looking in the Scottish Records (and needing to look in the Irish records) was about BMD's.
I now have several suggestions for types of searches to do which I am grateful.

[Elwyn Soutter]

The 1871 Selkirk marriage certificate says Phelin was a labourer. In general, the folk listed in the tithes were farmers. The tithes were in effect a tax based on the amount of land you held, excluding anything less than about an acre. So labourers generally weren’t listed in the tithes.  I wouldn’t rush to assume the Phelin in those records must be your family. It probably isn’t.

Griffiths did list many labourers, as well as farmers and so can be more helpful. Farmers will have a bit of land (measured in acres, roods & perches), labourers generally just a house and a few perches, if that.

[shanreagh]

The 1871 Selkirk marriage certificate says Phelin was a labourer. In general, the folk listed in the tithes were farmers. The tithes were in effect a tax based on the amount of land you held, excluding anything less than about an acre. So labourers generally weren’t listed in the tithes.  I wouldn’t rush to assume the Phelin in those records must be your family. It probably isn’t.

Griffiths did list many labourers, as well as farmers and so can be more helpful. Farmers will have a bit of land (measured in acres, roods & perches), labourers generally just a house and a few perches, if that.

The Selkirk marriage was in Scotland so ideas of labourers or farmers were not the same as in Ireland.  Apart from the famine, setting people on the move,  another reason was that land was transferred to oldest son or the son most interested in farming.  In Ireland, because of circs people who would have been farmers now were listed as labourers.

The rest, who may have been able to live in Ireland in days past, doing labouring/farm work with the odd bit of travel to help in harvesting found it difficult to get work. These ones often moved to Scotland where in effect they started anew.   Phelin may not have been the oldest son & may have found it difficult to find work in Ireland and so moved to Scotland. 

This being the case I most definitely would not dismiss Phelin from a link to the various families in Griffiths or the Tithes Applotment.  Much more work will be needed to do this including knowing the names and birth order of the children in case the family followed the Irish naming pattern. 

[Beavances]

I do take heed with the points made. Thank you - what you has been said makes total sense.

 The information from Griffiths which names a  Phelin is not something i would automatically link to this family. There is not enough to confirm a link to Mary ( who may or may not be a daughter)  who marries in Scotland in 1871.
There is also  the mis-match between someone who owned land in Ireland and listed as labourer at a later date.

That said though it could be the same Phelin/Phelan - which could potentially be very exciting !

I think, for now,  I need to park this is until I work out, one way or another,  what is the birthplace name Mary has stated on the 1921.  Only when I have worked which place in Ireland it is  can I reliably start searching the records. 

Thanks all

[gaffy]

If you're parking things to come back to, then park this marriage as well just in case it's relevant, it's of a Michael McPartland of Ross More townland, son of Phelim McPartlan a farmer, who in Inishmagrath RC Church in 1867 married an Anne Lyons of what I'm assuming is the nearby townland of Kilnagarns Upper or Lower:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1867/11484/8221497.pdf

[shanreagh]

Phelin can be spelt in several ways

Phelan
Phelim
Phelin

I would not put too much on the changes of spelling of his first name bearing mind the low levels of literacy, the change of country and accents.

From Mrs Google
Phelin can be used as a first name, especially for boys. It's an uncommon but distinct variant of the Irish Gaelic names Felan or Faolán, which mean "little wolf" or "wolf cub". The name has a history in Irish mythology and folklore, where wolves were associated with strength and guardianship. While not as popular as names like Liam or Aidan, Phelin offers a unique choice for those seeking a name with Irish roots.

John Grenham and McPartlan/d
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=mcpartlan