Help needed with Police Gazette numbers

[deejayEn]

One of my ancestors George Lay had a criminal record and was featured in the police gazettes several times. One fron 1922 featured a photograph which was interesting to see. On the page detailing his methods and description are known associates one of whom is his brother Robert Lay. This was actually out of date information as he had died in 1918. But against the reference is a refnumber - C.R.O. No. S/124602, if this refers to a case,where can I look that number  and the case it refers to?

Also under subsequent history are some numbers in red ink. What do they refer to?

Also in some of George's crime records is a column headed Intended addresss and occupation, I assume this means where he will live and what job he is to do upon release. In most records it is his usual home address but in one record is a different address. Was it normal for prisoners to lie and give false home addresses or did it mean he temporarily lived there?

[AntonyMMM]

The CRO reference isn't a specific case. It stands for Criminal Record Office.

It is the number he was allocated when first arrested, and identifies the file that would contain all his criminal history. It would stay the same throughout his criminal career.

As a police officer many years ago I dealt with a few "regulars" who could quite happily quote their CRO number to you when they got arrested, and one young lady who even had it as a tattoo.

Any address mentioned I would expect to be one they were believed to have a connection to, but yes criminals/prisoners do lie.

[deejayEn]

Thanks for the info. Do you know where I can look up the CRO number quoted as Robert was my great grandfather.

[AntonyMMM]

You have the number, but the file it relates to is probably long gone.

Even if it did survive it would only be a list of his convictions and the same information could probably be obtained by looking at newspapers, court records and prison records (which mostly do survive).

CRO records were digitised in the 1990s and other than perhaps for a few notable individuals paper records of that age wouldn't have been kept.

[deejayEn]

Thanks for your help. I have found one newspaper cutting but I hoped there was more.

[mckha489]

What are the dates for your Robert?

I can see a 15 yr old Robert Lay of Ferdinand St in 1903 being sent to a reformatory ship until he turns 19

And in 1910 a labourer RVL of Hartland Road age 22 charged with burglarously entering

Did he die in 1918?

[deejayEn]

Yes that is my Robert V Lay (born Robert V Bloomfield 1888), we know he went to the reformatory ship in Birkenhead for 4 years but thought he had learned his lesson until I found two newspaper cuttings about him stealing from a public house in 1910, but the ref on his brother's record suggests he was involved in other crimes. He died in 1918.

[deejayEn]

Thank you