Author Topic: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate  (Read 408 times)

Offline neelawson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« on: Friday 11 April 25 22:04 BST (UK) »
Obtained 1948 marriage certificate of a relative of Polish ancestry Leo Hubert Baranski who married in Blackpool.  Besides the 2 British names listed as witnesses there is also a Polish surname  OZIEMBLOWSKI written in block capitals and no christian name. Can anyone think why that would be?

Offline shanreagh

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,795
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 April 25 01:44 BST (UK) »
Not sure why there are no initials unless the name is O ZIEMBLOWSKI.

The block letters are often used in military official record writing.  My former husband's naval records have many instances where sections & the names under signatures are written in caps. 

Offline amondg

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,621
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 April 25 05:25 BST (UK) »
If you put the surname Oziemblowski  on ancestry it brings up several in Yorkshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire.

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,715
  • George Hood, born Selby, Yorkshire 31st Jan'y 1847
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 12 April 25 18:21 BST (UK) »
Got as far as I can, but someone else on here might have a go?

Were you hoping that oziemblowski was a clue to helping you with Baranski, lineage?

I presume this is linked to your Certificate extract, on here (also featured in full):-

https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=78460

10th July 1948, The Register Office in the District of Blackpool.

Marriage of
Leo. Hubert Baranski, 32 years, Bread & Confectionery Baker (Journeyman),106 Burlington Road, Blackpool,
Jessie Birchall, 34 years,

With a dot after Leo. do you think that is short for Leonard, or something else, as though he has anglicised his name to make it sound English? Just a thought.

Father:
Wladyslaw Baranski (Deceased),
Occupation:
School Inspector

 ---------------

I don't know these websites, but presume you had found these webpages?

https://oziemblowski.eu/eng/index.htm


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/oziemblowski/about?srsltid=AfmBOorLQSFMX7p0t41_6pqL6QW3EJ0tVyq7pjqQlHlW9ghQnGVL_OHk


Offline neelawson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 April 25 18:35 BST (UK) »
Got as far as I can, but someone else on here might have a go?

Were you hoping that oziemblowski was a clue to helping you with Baranski, lineage?

I presume this is linked to your Certificate extract, on here (also featured in full):-

https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=78460

10th July 1948, The Register Office in the District of Blackpool.

Marriage of
Leo. Hubert Baranski, 32 years, Bread & Confectionery Baker (Journeyman),106 Burlington Road, Blackpool,
Jessie Birchall, 34 years,

With a dot after Leo. do you think that is short for Leonard, or something else, as though he has anglicised his name to make it sound English? Just a thought.

Father:
Wladyslaw Baranski (Deceased),
Occupation:
School Inspector

 ---------------

I don't know this person or websites, but presume you had found these webpages?

https://oziemblowski.eu/eng/index.htm


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/oziemblowski/about?srsltid=AfmBOorLQSFMX7p0t41_6pqL6QW3EJ0tVyq7pjqQlHlW9ghQnGVL_OHk

Never noticed the dot after Leo tho it could have just been a speck on the scanner. I have seen Leo and Leon on Polish websites. Thanks for the FTDNA link worth trying an email for that

Offline AlanBoyd

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 12 April 25 19:58 BST (UK) »
He definitely went on to be referred to as Leo: there is a death notice for Leo Hubert Baranski (died May 17th 2000) in the Ripon Gazette which names his (late) wife as Jessie, and his four children.
Boyd, Dove, Blakey, Burdon

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,715
  • George Hood, born Selby, Yorkshire 31st Jan'y 1847
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 13 April 25 07:39 BST (UK) »
On the Marriage Copy for Leo.

You have the same full stop on the copy signature too, a similar dot on the dot on the i in Jessie, etc.

If Baranski was settling here by Marriage, I am thinking that it may be really important to show officially that his forename was altered, by adding a full stop to show deliberate abbreviation of his actual forename.

Once, he has a Marriage Certificate, he shows that and becomes known by that name. His employer or Tax Office (if self-employed), must have got him a N.I. Number.

You could apply to the Blackpool Superintendent Registrar's Office and ask for scans of the original:-
Marriage Register entry.
The Licence Application.
The Marriage Schedule.
 ---------------

One who married into my family had changed his name at Marriage.

Offline Annie65115

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,233
  • HOLYLAND regd with guild of one name studies
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 13 April 25 17:38 BST (UK) »
The early 1940s in the UK saw a rush of people changing their surnames from names of Jewish origin, or potentially sounding Jewish, to anglicised versions of the same -- or sometimes to an English/anglicised name that didn't really sound much like their birth name at all. This was apparently due to the increasing fear of a Nazi invasion.

I wonder if J B Blair was actually J M Oziemblowski, if s/he had started using an English sounding name so that the registrar thought it important to record both versions of their name on the certificate.

This is a wild guess btw!
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,715
  • George Hood, born Selby, Yorkshire 31st Jan'y 1847
    • View Profile
Re: Polish surname as 3rd witness on marriage certificate
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 17 April 25 22:19 BST (UK) »
Neelawson

Shanreagh at Reply # 1 suggested the British Military in their military documents often state surnames [and places] in capital lettering. I get this in RAF ORB and other RAF records too. Although they give their rank and often forename too.

 ---------------

Following the end of WW 2 some Poles and other Nationals had assisted the British and were unable to return to their homelands.

Polish Resettlement Act 1947

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/10-11/19

 ---------------

You might find this blog interesting on our National Archives website for general information ...

The displacement of Poles and their subsequent resettlement in the United Kingdom, 1939-1949

https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/the-displacement-of-poles-and-their-subsequent-resettlement-in-the-united-kingdom-1939-1949/

 ---------------

Even though it was 1948, I would still see if Blackpool Registry Office can add anything further, to the Certificate?

The Marriage was by Licence and an Application for a Licence will have been made in 1948, before the Marriage took place.

 ---------------

Just reading the file titles here are an interesting snapshot, searching the words:- Polish Marriage

Many will be Policy or Organisation type files, but you can find the occasional example in a file, where it changes governmental Policy

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/1?_q=Polish%20Marriage&_dss=range&_sd=1939&_ed=1948&_ro=any&_hb=tna

 ---------------

The National Archives, Kew
Catalogue Ref:  RG 48/1984

Registrar General
Marriage of members of Polish Forces or Resettlement Corps: permission of Commanding Officer

1948

Original Dept Reference: 11216R48

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2451485

 ---------------

OZIEMBLOWSKI might be there in an official capacity, but feel it would include the person's position, rank or title and a forename.

 ---------------

Marriage
If a Polish citizen is getting married in England, the Polish consular official might be involved in the process of obtaining necessary documents or providing legal advice, but they would not typically officiate at the marriage.

 ---------------

Searching Polish Resettlement Corps this website appeared, I don't know who they are, but appear to be a business.
https://www.polishgenealogist.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/

Having said that there is some interesting general information
https://www.polishgenealogist.co.uk/blog/polish-resettlement-corps/