Registration of Death

[BrianClaydon]

1. If another couple had married in a RC church in Ireland before 1836 without an Anglican priest present, and moved to England, would their marriage be seen as legally binding in an English court? I may be wrong, but my research suggests not.

Completely incorrect.

2. The information I provided regarding Edmund's birth was based on 3 Census records and his death registration, none of which concur on his date of birth. With the kind help of people on this forum I have located 2 more Census records attributed to him and none of them have the same DOB either. The first one pushes his DOB back to 1821. He may even be older than that. That aside, as I expressed earlier I was 'amazingly' unaware yesterday of the significance of the law change in 1836.

I can only go by what you tell us, and you told us 1829.

3. You state that you 'doubt a Catholic would care about the English Civil Law position', but from what I understand, and I could well be wrong, one of the reasons the new law was enacted was to provide protection to RC women whose husbands had left them, and who had little recourse with the English justice system.
3b. You state that 'After all it was and is the case that you can change your name at will, no marriage required in any case'. I would therefore kindly suggest that your first answer is technically incorrect and the one kindly provide by 'KGarrad' on page 1 of this thread is correct. They stated 'A death registered in England or Wales will be under the name the person was known by.
Or, more likely, the name the informant knew them by.'

a. Rather proving my contention that Catholics would simply ignore the law.

b. KGarrad simply stated what might be put on the registration in the case she was known as D'Arcy. He/she said nothing about the rest of what you posted - CofE vs Registry Office Vs Catholic marriage, and all the rest of the context you gave.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[BrianClaydon]

Is there any sign of a Michael about?

Some more info from those D'Arcy baptisms, I am not great at reading the names of the sponsors

Jacobus, born 14 February 1843, sponsors Jacobus Brown, Carolina Darcy(?)
Edmundus, born 11 December 1845, Jacobus Darcy, Catharine Moran(?)
Margaret (something is written under Margaret), born 12 July 1851, William D'Arcy, Mary Macnaughton (or-en)
Jacobus, born 3 June 1853, Jacobus Darcy, Joanna Oday
Thomas, born 6 November 1855, Patrick OBrien (or Brien?), Ellen Driscoll
John Valentine, born 29 January 1861, Gulielmus Darcy, Catherina Darcy

Thanks again Jonwarrn,

I appreciate the info. I've not had any great experience or success so far with my Catholic and Irish ancestors. It's new land to me, so this kind of info and how to obtain it is really appreciated. I haven't managed to look on this branch further back than Edmund. This is my mother's side of the family and something I've only started on this year.

The two new census readings and finds of birth registrations for his first children has been hugely helpful. Also the possibility of Michael as a brother is a new and exciting find. I was originally hoping that if I could find out more about Mary/Margaret Walsh it would open more up about Edmund. The information people have given around the first point of questioning has been fantastic, and gives much to consider.

I really appreciate the input. Thanks.

B

[BrianClaydon]

The further information then opened the door to a possible marriage in Ireland from 1842:

Name:   Edmond Day
Gender:   Male
Event Type:   Marriage
Marriage Date:   2 Jul 1842
Marriage Place:   Imogeela, Ireland, Ireland
Residence Place:   C Martyn
Parish Variant:s   Castlemartyr
Diocese:   Cloyne
Spouse:   Mary Walsh

No, this couple isn't yours.

In cases like this you should always check to see if the couple remained in the location of origin - Castlemartyr, Co. Cork in this case. And they did. This couple had multiple chiltren in Castlemartyr from 1843-1850.

Thank you Wexflyer,

I've been gardening all day and have been mainly away from my computer, which hopefully explains my tardy replies. Thank you for following up on that lead and indicating it is not worth investigating further. Appreciate it.

B

[jonwarrn]

Hi Brian
You're welcome.
There seem to have been a number of probably related D'arcys about, going on the godparents names.

There was a Michael Darcy, Labourer, who married Ann Connelly in St Pancras in 1852, father James Darcy, Shoemaker. Residence Compton Place. I guess he might be a possibility.
Image on ancestry.

[BrianClaydon]

Registrations of Birth, Marriage and Death are informant led.
The Registrar, or Ecclesiastical Minister, simply writes down what he/she is told, Or, more likely, what they heard.
No proof was ever asked for.

And it is still the case that a person can call themselves anything they like - just as long as it isn't for the purposes of fraud or deceit.

Thank you KGarrad,

I think that is a very valid point about it being 'informant led'. Hopefully the informant is next of kin  and can provide as accurate information as possible at time of registration. There must have been occasions though (and I'm not stating this is one) where the information is very sparse or even nonexistent. A body washed up on a shore, or a sick traveller to a village.

B

[KGarrad]

Registrations of Birth, Marriage and Death are informant led.
The Registrar, or Ecclesiastical Minister, simply writes down what he/she is told, Or, more likely, what they heard.
No proof was ever asked for.

And it is still the case that a person can call themselves anything they like - just as long as it isn't for the purposes of fraud or deceit.

Thank you KGarrad,

I think that is a very valid point about it being 'informant led'. Hopefully the informant is next of kin  and can provide as accurate information as possible at time of registration. There must have been occasions though (and I'm not stating this is one) where the information is very sparse or even nonexistent. A body washed up on a shore, or a sick traveller to a village.

B

There are some burials here (Isle of Man) of unknown drowned persons.
They are marked as such in the burial registers.

[BrianClaydon]

Hi Brian
You're welcome.
There seem to have been a number of probably related D'arcys about, going on the godparents names.

There was a Michael Darcy, Labourer, who married Ann Connelly in St Pancras in 1852, father James Darcy, Shoemaker. Residence Compton Place. I guess he might be a possibility.
Image on ancestry.

Hi Jonwarrn,

I think Ancestry is citing a James Darcy as a possible father in their DNA thrulines offerings. The fact he was also a shoemaker makes it even more interesting. As always, thanks.

I am going to attempt to close the thread again now. Thought I had achieved that yesterday evening but with this cold induced thick head it appears I messed it up.

it's not that I don't appreciate every-ones input - I really do, but I have been gifted so much excellent information off the back of one simple question that I have a lot to go on and investigate further. Doors have been opened for me and I need to find time to go through them and investigate them fully. When work, children and life in general permits. I don't wish to take advantage of 'Rootschat' obvious generosity of spirit and time.

I want again to thank everyone who has read the post and particularly those that have taken time to investigate and post helpful responses.

Kind regards,

Brian

[BrianClaydon]

Registrations of Birth, Marriage and Death are informant led.
The Registrar, or Ecclesiastical Minister, simply writes down what he/she is told, Or, more likely, what they heard.
No proof was ever asked for.

And it is still the case that a person can call themselves anything they like - just as long as it isn't for the purposes of fraud or deceit.

Thank you KGarrad,

I think that is a very valid point about it being 'informant led'. Hopefully the informant is next of kin  and can provide as accurate information as possible at time of registration. There must have been occasions though (and I'm not stating this is one) where the information is very sparse or even nonexistent. A body washed up on a shore, or a sick traveller to a village.

B

There are some burials here (Isle of Man) of unknown drowned persons.
They are marked as such in the burial registers.

 

Thanks again KGarrad for your insight and answers. Going to close the thread as you have all given me much to work with. I'm very grateful.

B

[BrianClaydon]

Apparently the thread is already marked as completed!