Registration of Death

[BrianClaydon]

I was able to find an 1841 Census featuring 'Edward Da Darcy' learning his shoemaking trade in Brick Lane, Whitechapel, Middlesex on 'Ancestry'. I had seen it before but the DOB (1821) looked a bit 'iffy'.

Don't forget that in the 1841 census the ages of over 15 years olds were rounded down to the nearest five years.

So someone entered as 20 years old could in fact have been 24 years old.

Hi JenB,

I had heard that, but had forgotten it! Thank you for the reminder. If for arguments sake he was 15 or 16 at the time (which I think is more likely) would that have been rounded to 20?

B

Sorry, got the sniffles and a thick head at present. You did state 'rounded down' rather than up. Please ignore that question!

[jonwarrn]

Hi
It's a very good find for 1841.
Though it does perhaps make that marriage possibility in 1842 in Ireland less likely (without ruling it out)

As to age, the Edmund Darcy, shoemaker, who was acquited at the Middlesex Sessions in April 1854 was 30 according to the newspapers. May not be right of course. That chap had a brother Michael, who seems to have been the naughty person!

[BrianClaydon]

Hi
It's a very good find for 1841.
Though it does perhaps make that marriage possibility in 1842 in Ireland less likely (without ruling it out)

As to age, the Edmund Darcy, shoemaker, who was acquited at the Middlesex Sessions in April 1854 was 30 according to the newspapers. May not be right of course. That chap had a brother Michael, who seems to have been the naughty person!

Hi,

I agree that the 1841 record does call the marriage record in Ireland into question - but as you say, doesn't rule it out. Particularly as there seems a little money attached to the family which presumably makes them a little more mobile than some. The other thing about the marriage is that Edmund is recorded as 'Edmond Day'. Joanna his second wife (cousin? Niece?) had the maiden name of 'Ody' or O'Day'. Coincidence? Possibly.

The age of 30 in 1854 seems very possible. looking at all the dates provided by Edmund in the Census, that falls in about the middle. I have a feeling though that he may not have always provided accurate info. Understandable distrust of the English state, perhaps.

I had seen that a possible for Edmund had been acquited of serious bodily harm, if that is what you are referring to? Haven't seen any newspaper reports as I don't have a sub at the moment. Didn't know about Michael as a possible brother so that may be a lead for affirming correct parentage to Edmund. Thank you.

Bests,

B

[jonwarrn]

Hi
I can't attach the article because this is a look up board.
If you are registered with findmypast as a free member, and logged in, you can see it in a couple of newspapers without having to have a current sub
i.e.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0002582%2F18540415&page=5&article=047&stringtohighlight=edmund+darcy

[BrianClaydon]

Hi
I can't attach the article because this is a look up board.
If you are registered with findmypast as a free member, and logged in, you can see it in a couple of newspapers without having to have a current sub
i.e.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0002582%2F18540415&page=5&article=047&stringtohighlight=edmund+darcy

Got it!

Thank you very much. I agree Michael doesn't sound very pleasant if he kicks people in the head when they are on the floor!

[jonwarrn]

Is there any sign of a Michael about?

Some more info from those D'Arcy baptisms, I am not great at reading the names of the sponsors

Jacobus, born 14 February 1843, sponsors Jacobus Brown, Carolina Darcy(?)
Edmundus, born 11 December 1845, Jacobus Darcy, Catharine Moran(?)
Margaret (something is written under Margaret), born 12 July 1851, William D'Arcy, Mary Macnaughton (or-en)
Jacobus, born 3 June 1853, Jacobus Darcy, Joanna Oday
Thomas, born 6 November 1855, Patrick OBrien (or Brien?), Ellen Driscoll
John Valentine, born 29 January 1861, Gulielmus Darcy, Catherina Darcy

[Wexflyer]

1. If another couple had married in a RC church in Ireland before 1836 without an Anglican priest present, and moved to England, would their marriage be seen as legally binding in an English court? I may be wrong, but my research suggests not.

Completely incorrect.

2. The information I provided regarding Edmund's birth was based on 3 Census records and his death registration, none of which concur on his date of birth. With the kind help of people on this forum I have located 2 more Census records attributed to him and none of them have the same DOB either. The first one pushes his DOB back to 1821. He may even be older than that. That aside, as I expressed earlier I was 'amazingly' unaware yesterday of the significance of the law change in 1836.

I can only go by what you tell us, and you told us 1829.

3. You state that you 'doubt a Catholic would care about the English Civil Law position', but from what I understand, and I could well be wrong, one of the reasons the new law was enacted was to provide protection to RC women whose husbands had left them, and who had little recourse with the English justice system.
3b. You state that 'After all it was and is the case that you can change your name at will, no marriage required in any case'. I would therefore kindly suggest that your first answer is technically incorrect and the one kindly provide by 'KGarrad' on page 1 of this thread is correct. They stated 'A death registered in England or Wales will be under the name the person was known by.
Or, more likely, the name the informant knew them by.'

a. Rather proving my contention that Catholics would simply ignore the law.

b. KGarrad simply stated what might be put on the registration in the case she was known as D'Arcy. He/she said nothing about the rest of what you posted - CofE vs Registry Office Vs Catholic marriage, and all the rest of the context you gave. 

[Wexflyer]

The further information then opened the door to a possible marriage in Ireland from 1842:

Name:   Edmond Day
Gender:   Male
Event Type:   Marriage
Marriage Date:   2 Jul 1842
Marriage Place:   Imogeela, Ireland, Ireland
Residence Place:   C Martyn
Parish Variant:s   Castlemartyr
Diocese:   Cloyne
Spouse:   Mary Walsh

No, this couple isn't yours.

In cases like this you should always check to see if the couple remained in the location of origin - Castlemartyr, Co. Cork in this case. And they did. This couple had multiple chiltren in Castlemartyr from 1843-1850.

[KGarrad]

Registrations of Birth, Marriage and Death are informant led.
The Registrar, or Ecclesiastical Minister, simply writes down what he/she is told, Or, more likely, what they heard.
No proof was ever asked for.

And it is still the case that a person can call themselves anything they like - just as long as it isn't for the purposes of fraud or deceit.