Author Topic: 1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words  (Read 176 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words
« on: Friday 28 March 25 00:30 GMT (UK) »
Hello Rootschatters,

I've attached a snippet of a sales document  and have highlighted the words I'm having difficulty reading.  The location is Saint-Loup in the Charente-Maritime department and Nouvelle-Aquitaine region of France.  The property being sold is located in Ribaudiere, some miles northeast of St. Loup.
 Ribaudiere is very close to what looks to be a farm property called "Imp. de Rompis".  But I cannot find a Rompis Re?.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
CRN-Hocking
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Offline Zefiro

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Re: 1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 29 March 25 16:43 GMT (UK) »
This is what I read:

demeurans au village des Ribaudiere
susditte par(oisse) de Saint Loup,
Cest a savoir un Rompis Renferfermé,
de touttes pars de fossé, proche ledit
Lieu des Ribaudiere, par laquelle vente
est faitte moyennans le prixes


Now to tackle some of your problems:

Ribaudiere is very close to what looks to be a farm property called "Imp. de Rompis"

I think you've found this on Google Maps? It means Impasse de Rompis, impasse being the word for a dead end street.

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Un rompis is an ancient French word, sometimes written as rompeis. It's land that for the first time has been used for cultivating, after being cleared. (see link below)
https://www.google.be/books/edition/Principes_et_usages_concernant_les_dixme/m9NLAAAAcAAJ?hl=nl&gbpv=1&dq=rompeis&pg=PA121&printsec=frontcover

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The word (if it is only one word) Renferfermé. I think it was meant to be (r)enfermé, meaning completely surrounded.

In summary, and if I'm right about everything:
The property being sold is a piece of newly cultivated land, surrounded by ditches (or pits, or whatever was meant by the french word fossé)

Does the document mention anything that contradicts this (for instance something built on the land)?




Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 30 March 25 17:20 BST (UK) »
Hello Zefiro,

Thank you so much for looking at this and solving the problem of the "Rompis" and "Imp. de Rompis".  The Google map shows this phrase immediately next to what appears to be a farm property.  So, I mistook it for being the name of the property and the laneway being the driveway.  Trying to discover what a "Rompis Ren/u/v/r" was, I did nothing but go around in circles.


As to Renferfermés, I was looking at that as being two words but couldn't make any sense of it, again because I couldn't decide what the final letter was, as noted above. 

This document is merely an extract of the actual sales document and only mentions the two parties and the location of the land.  What you have interpreted as  fossé, I had interpreted as forré, which, of course, is nonsense and translates into no known English word.  So, I have to agree that fossé is correct supported by the Cambridge Dictionary, which states that a fossé is
Quote
a long narrow hollow dug in the ground especially one to drain water from a field, road etc
.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/french-english/fosse#google_vignette

Again, thank you for solving this one for me.  Your time and expertise is greatly appreciated.
CRN-Hocking
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Offline Zefiro

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Re: 1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 30 March 25 17:43 BST (UK) »

As to Renferfermés, I was looking at that as being two words but couldn't make any sense of it, again because I couldn't decide what the final letter was, as noted above. 

This document is merely an extract of the actual sales document and only mentions the two parties and the location of the land. 

I think I know the reason a word like renferfermé ended up here. I'll explain myself. Sometimes at the end of a line (or page), when a word had to been split, the writer 'forgot' how many was left of the word, and rewrote a part of the word (if you know what I mean).
By coincidence I found an example with 'our' word.


Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1786 French Sales Document - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #4 on: Monday 31 March 25 16:49 BST (UK) »
Hello Zefiro,

Ah, yes.  I know exactly what you mean as I come across this in transliterating very old English court documents.  So, it is perfectly logical to think that the same thing happens to clerks who are writing in other languages.  Your example is a brilliant find. Thank you so much.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE