Author Topic: Desk job military in WWI  (Read 1361 times)

Offline alan o

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 30 March 25 18:56 BST (UK) »
I have scoured the 1916 Army list of all officers and he is not in there  at all let alone the West Yorks pages.

https://archive.org/details/monthly-army-list-1916-dec/page/235/mode/2up?q=Todd

It is rather odd.

Offline Vimeira

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 30 March 25 19:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Alan. Perhaps he was doing something hush-hush ... (Grasping at straws!) Or some special halfway admin status for men with connections in the right places?

Offline alan o

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 30 March 25 19:13 BST (UK) »
I agree and I suspect it was not so much hush hush but rather that he was in the Volunteers (Home Guard) and not holding an actual commission but managed to be granted a TFR commission in 1917 by dint of his money and connections which subsequently became an honorary Captain.  A title rather than an actual rank.

Offline Vimeira

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 30 March 25 19:33 BST (UK) »
I did wonder. His nephew on the other hand was very active (and killed) in WWII - Hadden Royden Todd (Major). Can't prove anything really about C. W. Todd. Thank you for all your help, everyone.


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 30 March 25 20:17 BST (UK) »
He's certainly in the October 1916 Army List. Column 1036a, West Yorks Regiment, 7th and 8th Battalions:
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 30 March 25 20:27 BST (UK) »
Here he is in the August 1916 list. Column 1036a, just to the left of "Cockburn High School Cadet Corps"

https://archive.org/details/monthly-army-list-1916-dec/page/n649/mode/2up
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Offline Vimeira

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 30 March 25 20:54 BST (UK) »
Well found again, Shaun. So that looks like the regular army, and not a Reserve. Even if he was moved  to the Reserve later. Looking on Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Yorkshire_Regiment, it looks as though the 7th and 8th Battalions were the Leeds Rifles and some were transferred to Territorial Reserve in 1916, so that would fit with later records. What do the numbers before the names mean? He has "8". I'm trying to find out if he actually went overseas.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 30 March 25 22:02 BST (UK) »
Well found again, Shaun. So that looks like the regular army, and not a Reserve. Even if he was moved  to the Reserve later. Looking on Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Yorkshire_Regiment, it looks as though the 7th and 8th Battalions were the Leeds Rifles and some were transferred to Territorial Reserve in 1916, so that would fit with later records. What do the numbers before the names mean? He has "8". I'm trying to find out if he actually went overseas.

Why is this going overseas important?  I have been at pains to let you know that older men were essential to back up/release younger ones for fighting overseas.  He was an older man at the time of WW1

Others have found that his rank was not doffed by him, out of the blue as a sort of status giving cap for the golf club but has been properly given.  His work in Nigeria was in fact as District Commissioner and that was a fairly weighty and important role in the UK Colonial Service.

If he was called on to serve, whether this was in England or not, as part of the armed forces he deserves to be on the memorial and to have his service carefully explained.

Serving officers/men, I know for a fact in WW2 in NZ, did not exhibit the slightly sneering attitude towards  their fellow soldiers who were doing work at home or who who did admin work while overseas.  They realised that all were essential to the war effort and all should have their service recognised. 

And yes school cadets/territorial force membership did count. Both gave a person a familarity with marksmanship and forces life and discipline. It was easier to slot these soldiers in than raw recruits. This was very important especially in the early stages of both wars.   

My Uncle held gold medals for marksmanship in the territorial/cadet force he belonged to at boarding school here in NZ  When he ran away at age 15 to join the AIF he was placed appropriately because of this.  He was killed in France while acting as a sniper, well forward, when he was 18 years old.  He was wounded a couple of times and I have the shrapnel that was removed....he saved it! Along with his medal swaps.

Various of his brothers were able to slot across, some with commissions, some without into NZ regiments early in WW2 because of their TF training that had followed on from being in cadets at school.  TF training meant going away on camps etc a couple of times a year and was a commitment as some employers did not pay or did not pay the full wage,  for this time away.  (They do now)

Please be careful to be bland and factual in the descriptions and not  put a gloss/denigration, that would not have been exhibited by fellow soldiers to those who served but who were too old or who were more valuable to the Armed forces held back because of other skills eg admin or being a NZ based gunnery instructor as happened with one of my Uncles in the early part of WW2.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Desk job military in WWI
« Reply #53 on: Sunday 30 March 25 23:43 BST (UK) »
So that looks like the regular army, and not a Reserve.
Not Regular Army. The 8th Battalion was a Territorial Force unit.
Looking on Wikipedia, it looks as though the 7th and 8th Battalions were the Leeds Rifles and some were transferred to Territorial Reserve in 1916
Yes, the 8th Battalion was one of two battalions that, pre-war, made up the Leeds Rifles but I think you have misunderstood what was happening during the war. On the outbreak, the 8th Battalion was retitled 1/8th Battalion and deployed to France in April 1915. During 1914 a second line battalion named the 2/8th battalion was raised and they too deployed to France in January 1917. At the same time a reserve battalion was being raised with the Leeds Rifles  in order to keep the 1/8th and 2/8th Battalions supplied with reinforcements. The other original Leeds Rifles Battalion, the 7th, did something very similar.
This article explains what was happening: https://web.archive.org/web/20051220115348/http://www.yorkshirevolunteers.org.uk/Leedsrifles.htm
What do the numbers before the names mean? He has "8".
It means that he was serving in the 8th Battalion. Since the entry does not specify 1/8th or 2/8th (as is the case with 2Lt Lawson, four names above his in the Army List) we cannot be sure which unit he was with in 1916.  However the earlier list which Shaun found (reply 49) does note the particular battalion, namely 3/8th, which seems to have been the Reserve Battalion which remained in the UK. That of course does not prove that Charles William Todd did not at some stage deploy to France, although the lack of a medal card does support that theory.

See the article on the West Yorkshire Regiment on the Long, Long Trail website: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-own-west-yorkshire-regiment/