Mary Brown, born Bangor 1890(ish), daughter of James

[jornage5]

A bit of something or nothing.
In 1853 Patrick Brown b Ireland marred Catherine Hegarty b Liverpool in Bangor
In 1861 they in Mold with daughter Margaret registered 1854 Holywell .
In 1871 they are in Bangor, Margaret is 17.
1881 and Margaret is missing, but there is a son James 12 b Bangor .
James is with the family till 1911, he married in 1912 and died in 1934 aged 63, so born 1871
A James Brown was registered June qtr 1871 Bangor mmn Brown.
Could James be the illigitmate son of Margaret Brown,  and Patrick and Catherine really his grandparents.

The birth registration for Mary Brown hasn't been found for sure, the only clue is she  says she was born in Bangor and her father was James Brown.
It's possible that if she was born c 1890 / 1891 that James b 1871 was old enough to be her father.
The only drawback is that this Brown family seemed to quite settled and employed .
This doesn't sit right with Mary being destitute,  but it depends on her mothers circumstances.
This all must be taken with a pinch of salt but .......

Well this is very interesting and i think it's something for me to consider.

I have messaged 2 of my mum's cousins who are older than her and may remember more about Mary. The first one has said that John 'brought her back from Wales' (whatever that means) and that 'her family was Irish which is why Harold and Joe had red hair' and 'she was older than she said she was'.

It's not a great deal of help I know, but it's something. I've asked her if she thinks that the reason that they didn't marry in Rossett church was because Mary was catholic.

[wilcoxon]

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3880026/3880042/125/Patrick%2BOR%2Bbrown

1901 Thomas buildings  Caepella
Patrick Browne 67Head
Catherine Browne 66Wife
Peter Browne 32Son
James Browne29Son

Apart from this one there's many previous reports about Patrick and the drink, some of them have address which matches census.

Not much help really .

[jornage5]

On Mary's marriage certificate of 1916 James Brown is deceased. However, John's age is incorrect on it (it says he is 24 but he was 25, I have his birth certificate) so it isn't a 100% reliable source. There is also no occupation given for James, it's just blank. Maybe the registrar was drunk when he wrote it 

[wilcoxon]

There are 2 John and Mary Percivals in Wrexham (I keep tripping over them all!). The railway worker John is not the correct one. The correct Mary Brown died in July 1953 in Wrexham Hospital, the death was registered in Ruthin by her son Harold (my grandfather).


Is this correct.  A death has to be registered in the district it took place within 5 days.
Why do you say Ruthin.?

[jornage5]

Is this correct.  A death has to be registered in the district it took place within 5 days.
Why do you say Ruthin.?

Yes, I don't know why it would be registered in Ruthin - is it OK to register a death anywhere in the same county?

I had assumed that this was her death record:

PERCIVAL, MARY  ELIZABETH     63 
GRO Reference: 1952  J Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 08A  Page 403

It says widow of John Percival of Victoria Road Wrexham (Railway Signalman) registered by son W.J. Percival of Jubilee Road Wrexham. This isn't a match, they only ever lived in Rossett and their sons were Harold and Joseph who also lived in Rossett and John didn't die until 1959.

But this is the correct one:

PERCIVAL, MARY       65 
GRO Reference: 1953  S Quarter in RUTHIN  Volume 08A  Page 331

It says wife of John Percival, Retired General Labourer of Club House Rossett (this house is still in the family), registered by son H.Percival of 6 Green Cottages Rossett (which is the house my mum grew up in).

So by this, she was born in 1888
Her marriage certificate suggests 1891
The 1921 Census suggests March 1891
The 1939 register says 25th March 1890

[wilcoxon]

GRO has the entry as Ruthin.
Freebmd has it as Wrexham.
Both entries have the same Reference number.
That's rather confusing isn't it. Deaths are supposed to be registered in the district it took place.
Maybe an error on the GRO
Definitely your Mary though.

[WelshGen]

A quick mention about births in Bangor. A child may be born in Bangor, but it could be in the maternity hospital which means that child could be living anywhere in the Bangor area (even on Anglesey) and would not necessarily turn up in Bangor in the next census.

[nestagj]

Hello,
St David's (also known as County) Hospital, the children & maternity hospital in Bangor was not built until 1913, it was closed and then demolished in 1994.  I was born there  in 1962 and my son in 1983  I still have two bricks from the demolition as they sold them for charity - it was a big red brick building.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_David%27s_Hospital,_Bangor