James Byrne and his mother Margaret

[shanreagh]

Maybe not, but our Margaret/Martha Byrne definitely lived in Clarendon Street, at various numbers in the 30s - 33, 34, 36, as a widow, so it'd be a bit of a coincidence if the 33 Clarendon Street address for a husband wasn't correct.

The address on the marriage certificate  for the husband is 331/2 (ie thirty three and a half) Clarendon street
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/50920081/patrick-sheary-33-clarendon-street-dublin-2-dublin

PS Only mentioned as I love these addresses with half etc in them. 

 

[Abhanliath]

Unless they forgot to register a birth, it looks as if the James born in 1888 is our James - how strange that his age should have been stated as ten years less!

[Abhanliath]

I haven't found Patrick's death either. Drat them with their common names! And if only the Civil Records site had a street address field!

[shanreagh]

Peter Byrne b 1890
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/cert_amends/cert_1890/1908862b.pdf

Richard Joseph b 1893
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1893/02305/1864386.pdf

I can only find (so far) 

Peter 1890
Patrick 1891
Richard Joseph 1893
James 1888

on FS.

The death certificate is for a 17 year old James Byrne so born 1898/9. Possibly this James would not have had children before dying at this young age. 

Who is your ancestor from the remaining three boys?

ETA:
An 1887 marriage fits in with this little family

[heywood]

Which member of the family are you researching?

You are using Clarendon Street as the marker but there are several years between the records where you have it.

There are Byrne families in 1901 and 1911 censuses in Clarendon Street and as you say it is a common name.

Which records do you have where Margaret is described as ‘dull-witted’ and ‘mentally deficient’. The censuses don’t record anything like that for her.

Sorry, this is all questions - you also mention Military Archive records - who is that for?

[Abhanliath]

Look at http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/search.aspx?formtype=advanced for James Byrne and you'll find the lad I'm looking for; the military pension is for his bereaved mother. This is the James Byrne aged 17 killed in 1916. The "dull-witted" descriptions are from that scanty pension application. The Margaret (corrected by registrar to Martha) Byrne in the death registration I posted is that James's mother.

I'm inclined to think that the Edmondstown family is a different one; Margaret/Martha Byrne, mother of James, who died in 1916, was 81 when she died in 1936.

[heywood]

Just for information - the marriage of Richard Byrne, father Patrick , a gardener.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09125/5300359.pdf

[shanreagh]

Just for information - the marriage of Richard Byrne, father Patrick , a gardener.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09125/5300359.pdf

I am getting less and less certain that the James/Margaret combination we have here has any relation to the family that includes Patrick, Peter Richard and James with births around the late 1880s early 1890s. 

The James who was killed in 1916 has a mother who depended on him and his contributions from his previous occupation of grocer's assistant. If this is the 1888 James then that James had a brother Richard who was alive and getting maried in 1926 with an occupation of Insurance agent (as found by Heywood) plus possibly two other brothers. All these three could, on the face of it, be making some contribution  towards their mother. 

[shanreagh]

Look at http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/search.aspx?formtype=advanced for James Byrne and you'll find the lad I'm looking for; the military pension is for his bereaved mother. This is the James Byrne aged 17 killed in 1916. The "dull-witted" descriptions are from that scanty pension application. The Margaret (corrected by registrar to Martha) Byrne in the death registration I posted is that James's mother.

I'm inclined to think that the Edmondstown family is a different one; Margaret/Martha Byrne, mother of James, who died in 1916, was 81 when she died in 1936.

Margaret Byrne, if she is the mother of a 17 years old James would have been 44 at his birth, not out of the way in age but a little unusual.

Even though you have referred to a change from Margaret to Martha I could not fully read what it said (do you have it written out?) and the military files refer to her as Margaret rather than Martha. Did the change to Martha happen after 1916?

NB ETA the military papers in one part mention Marta Byrne