Author Topic: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687  (Read 708 times)

Offline clontarf

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Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« on: Tuesday 04 March 25 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Bedfordshire Notes and Queries, Vol 2, p90 has the following transcription of a memorial in Battlesden church (I have added line numbers for ease of reference):

1. Heic Iacet
2. Praenobilis Vir JOHANNES DUNCOMBE
3. Eques Auratus
4. Gulielmi Battlesduni in agro Bedfordiensi Armigeri
5. Et Eliz: Johannis POINTZ Equitis Aurati gnatae filius
6. Eliz: MAIJ antequa et honesta oriundae familia Maritus
7. Ex Septem unico Conjugio natis, unici Gulielmi superstitis Pater,
8. Pater Maritus Filius Optimus Carolo Secundo
9. Triumvir Armamentaritis et a Secretioribus Consiliis
10. Rebus bene gestis haud multo post Quinquevir AEravi Praetor.
11. Res Regias administrabat pura admodum et parca manu
12. Munifica hujus Rex et Dominus, res privatas restituit et auxit
13. Singularis sic comparata res domi
14. Vir
15. Tanti Regis fiducia Spectabilis, tot tantisque muneribus clarus
16. Fide virtute, probitate saeculi concensu et existimatione egregius
17. Sed dimissos post honores, quam praesentis inter Splendores illustrior
18. Respondit ipse quippe Dominus Euge[naeus] Bonus et Fidelis Servus
19. Laeta vox etsi terrena
20. Coelitus olim exaudita 
21. Resurgenti; o Beata 
22. Obijt 
23. IV Nonas Martii 
24. Anno Salutis MDCLXXXVII
25. AEtatis Suae LXIV.

I think some of the Latin may be wrong (by the mason or the transcriber) - Nonas in line 23 should probably be Mensis; and filius in the line 5 perhaps should be filia.

Google translate and my limited knowledge of Latin produced the following general sense of the inscription:

"Here lies a noble man John DUNCOMBE, a golden knight, son of William, armiger of Battlesden in Bedfordshire, and Elizabeth daughter of John POINTZ, another golden knight.  He was married to Elizabeth MAY. She (or perhaps Sir John) came from a family of ancient and honorable origin.  Out of this marriage came 7 children with only son William surviving.  Sir John was all round a splendid chap serving King Charles the Second for many years managing the royal affairs with a very pure and frugal hand.  The king had great confidence in him and he was famous for many roles, virtuous in faith, and distinguished by his integrity and reputation.  The Good and Faithful Servant was called to heaven by the Blessed Risen One and died on the 4th of the month of March in the Year of Salvation 1687 aged 64."

I had particular trouble with lines 9 and 10 which I think say when or how long and in what position Sir John worked for the King.

Any assistance much appreciated.

Offline jnomad

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 04 March 25 16:33 GMT (UK) »
I think “nonas” in line 23 may be OK. Roman dating: the numeral gives number of days before the nones (or ides, or kalends, as specified) of the month, i.e., for March, the 9th. So 5th of March.

Offline clontarf

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 04 March 25 22:31 GMT (UK) »
Thank you jnomad.  That is very interesting.  Does this mean "Nonas" is a mis-spelling, or is the "-as" ending required grammatically?

The parish register shows his burial on 6 Mar 1686/7, but every history of Sir John I have seen says he died on 4 March.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 05 March 25 08:53 GMT (UK) »
He died on 4 March.

IV Nonas Martii = 4 March, that is, 4 days before the Nones, including the first and last day in the calculation. In March, the Nones are on the 7th (normally the 5th, never the 9th).

As the rhyme goes:
"In March, July, October, May
the Nones fall on the 7th day
the Ides fall on the 15th day"

Biography
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/duncombe-sir-john-1622-87


Offline jnomad

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 05 March 25 11:35 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Bookbox is right; sorry I didn’t check what I thought I remembered. And the Nones is day 1 in the count of four back. So 7, 6, 5, 4. It’s just a happenstance that the 4th day before the Nones is the 4th day of the month.

Offline clontarf

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 March 25 00:08 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both.  Two questions:

1. Would it be correct then to say that literally IV Nonas Martii = the fourth of/before the Nones of March?

2. Is Nonas, instead of Nones, a case ending because of either the implied prepositions of/before or Nones of March?

Offline Wayne N

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 06 March 25 05:16 GMT (UK) »
1: Yes... On the fourth day before the Nones of March
2: Obiit IV Nonis Martii
Ablative plural of Nonae - Nonis (used for dates when specifying when something happened. Obiit is referring to the date of death)
NORTON (Kent), KEECH (Dorset), MOOR / MOORE (Kent), HOCKING (Dorset / Somerset), LEVI (City of York), SANDWELL (Kent), CHAFFIN  (Dorset / Somerset), STRONG (Dorset)

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 06 March 25 09:04 GMT (UK) »
2. Is Nonas, instead of Nones, a case ending because of either the implied prepositions of/before or Nones of March?

Yes. The implied preposition is ante, meaning 'before', which takes the accusative case. This is why it is Nonas (and not Nonis). The ablative case (Nonis) is used only for the day itself, not when counting the number of days before.

Offline jnomad

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Re: Translation of Latin memorial tablet 1687
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 06 March 25 12:45 GMT (UK) »
Bookbox is right (as usual).
You haven’t had any help with lines 9 and 10. I don’t know about triumvir and quinquevir. I assume he was a member of bodies with 3 and 5 members, but I don’t know about such things in Charles II’s administration.