Known grandparents but not parents - any suggestions how to include on tree

[Deirdre784]

i have got to a point on my husband’s tree where his great grandfather William Williams is with his grandparents aged 5 (1891), appears to be a servant at the next farm aged 15 (1901) and from then on - until his death - is 100 miles away. The grandparents have 6 or more daughters (and 4+ sons), and 7 grandchildren are recorded with them in 1891, along with 2 unmarried daughters in their mid 30s. Two of the grandchildren died, registered by the grandfather, but the burial records record them as son / daughter of two of the daughters (different daughters, only one of whom was living with them in 1891).

Given that the surnames are Williams (in Wales  ), it is proving impossible to establish which of the daughters is the mother. His children from his first marriage (listing William Williams deceased as his father, though this could be his grandfather, no father named on his second marriage) are Catherine - apologies edited to Elizabeth, Margaret (his mother in law’s name) and Ellen (his wife’s name) so I’ve been concentrating on his mother being Catherine - Elizabeth, but not really getting anywhere. The 1939 register gives a date of birth as 1 April 1889 but that is later than all other records.

So I have no date or place of birth other than the area, and no parents, and only an address at aged 5. If I don’t know the references will the GRO look for a birth at the address where his grandparents were living?

Any suggestions as to how I can record this on the tree? Add his mother as A N Other Williams, maybe note it could be Ann, Mary, Catherine etc, and then her parents etc. I’m hoping the grandparents marriage certificate is on the way but that’s another mystery (grandfather wasn’t using the surname Williams at the time!).

Thanks for reading

[Milliepede]

Yes that sounds a tricky one.  I doubt GRO search addresses but someone may know more.

Who were the two daughters living at home in 1891?  I would start with them in case he was with his mother as well as grandparents.

Would there be baptism records for a local church you could get hold of? 

1939 DOB aren't always accurate either    Often the date is right but not the year so it might be something to go on at least.

What address were the grandparents at so I look at the correct census?

[Milliepede]

One of those other grandchildren could be a brother or sister so another avenue to go down.

[softly softly]

Deirdre784, just checking out 1891 census ref 4651 126 5, is this correct.

SS

[Deirdre784]

Hi SS, yes that’s the one (I was looking for the details).

Millipede - family appear to be non-conformist, no baptism or marriages found, only 1 of the children’s marriages listed in the paper.

The order of the grandchildren made me wonder if they were in groups by mother, though Jane’s mother Catherine is not there. Jane died aged 10 on 18 March 1897, buried at Llandegwning. Catherine is possibly in Bryncroes (about 4 miles away) as a servant. 

Mary is the mother of John, died 15 Dec 1891, buried at Llandegwning.

I’ve searched the burial records for any other deaths at the family home, Cefn Coch, and have the grandparents.

[softly softly]

Mary is the mother of Mary 1888 & Margaret 1892 as per their baptisms, no father recorded for either.

SS

[Milliepede]

So what else do we know about Catherine?  Thinking of Jane and William as siblings and hers.

[Deirdre784]

Mary is the mother of Mary 1888 & Margaret 1892 as per their baptisms, no father recorded for either.

SS

Where did you find that?

[Deirdre784]

So what else do we know about Catherine?  Thinking of Jane and William as siblings and hers.

Servant in Llangian in 1881 and in Bryncroes in 1891 - not found later…