Help please - David H Jones and wife Gwenllian, 1861 in Rhymney, Bedwellty

[baytree1970]

I can't seem to find this family on the 1861 census - would be grateful for any help:

David H Jones (b.1833, worked as an iron puddler) and wife Gwenllian (née Watkins), plus sons Edward (born 1858 at Tredegar Road, Rhymney) and David (born 1861, also Tredegar Road Rhymney). Another son Thomas was born in 1865 but I don't have his birth cert.

The family later emigrated to the USA where they appear on the 1870 and later censuses. US death certificates confirm their parents were Edward Watkins and Catherine Jones, and LLewellyn Jones. I'm not sure about David's father being Llewellyn - this info was reported by David's son Llewellyn on the death cert and so he may not have known the true facts. A marriage in 1857 in Bedwellty between David Jones and Gwenllian Watkins gives father's name as David Jones - it matches other details in every respect.

Gwenllian appears to be the daughter of Edward and Catharine Watkins, and in 1851 is found on Tredegar Road, Rhymney, living with her parents. In 1841 they're at Gelligaer.

The relevant census for Tredegar Road appears to be BEDWELLTY > TREDEGAR > DISTRICT 17 but neither the Joneses nor the Watkins appear.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looks like they emigrated in 1863  - see 3rd column under Original Correspondence

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3073423/3073427/10/tredegar%2BOR%2Broad%2BAND%2Bdavid%2BOR%2Bjones

I wonder if Gwillim Jones is a misprint for Gwenllian

[baytree1970]

Looks like they emigrated in 1863  - see 3rd column under Original Correspondence

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3073423/3073427/10/tredegar%2BOR%2Broad%2BAND%2Bdavid%2BOR%2Bjones

I wonder if Gwillim Jones is a misprint for Gwenllian

Thanks, this is a great find.

The question remains though, where are they in 1861 since Edward Watkins gives his address as Tredegar Road, Rhymney when this letter appears in 1863? Any thoughts?

[hanes teulu]

This index is Free to search but to view results requires subscription.
The Albert Gallatin sailed for New York from Liverpool "cleared for sea Aug 20th 1863, Collingwood Dock" - which fits July date of letter in newspaper. One passenger was a David Jones, age 30, born GB, year of arrival 1863.
Search "Statue of Liberty" passenger lists - click on "One Page Form" to refine search.
https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger

However, cannot locate a Gwenllian (or similar) or Edward 5, David 2 accompanying this David.

[baytree1970]

Thanks. I found a passenger list for the ship 'SIDON' arriving in New York on 14 July which has both Edward and Cath Watkins, as well as a party comprising David Jones, Mrs Jones, sons Edward and David, and also a Mary Watkins with them, who appears to be another the daughter of Ed and Cath Watkins. Furthermore, Mary is listed in Edward's letter about emigration. I also found a number of the other names in the letter aboard other ships, all arriving c.July/August 1863 in New York from Liverpool

HOWEVER - what I am struggling with is that the Watkins / Jones party could have arrived by 14 July in New York when Edward signed his letter 7 July whilst still in Wales. I gather it took about 8 days or more for a steamer to reach New York, so unless he postdated his letter, surely he couldn't have got there that fast. Also he's described as a farmer on the ship's list whilst on the census he's a collier.

But the precise match in names and ages for the Jones party seems compelling.

STILL no luck finding any of them in 1861

[CaroleW]

See link below re missing 1861 pieces for Wales. 21 pieces for Monmouthshire are missing

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces

[baytree1970]

See link below re missing 1861 pieces for Wales. 21 pieces for Monmouthshire are missing

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces

Thanks, that's interesting.

In this case I have found the relevant census return for Tredegar Road, Rhymney - Bedwellty > Tredegar > District 17. Tredegar Road was address given by Edward Watkins in his 1863 letter, and also where he was recorded on the 1851 census, and also where the Jones family lived in 1851. I've leafed through all the pages and cannot find them.

I'm STUCK!

[baytree1970]

Worth noting that David and Gwenllian's son David was born on 29 March 1861 at Tredegar Road, Rumney according to his GRO birth cert. and the 1861 census was taken on 7 April 1861.

Surely they would still have been at that address?!

[CaroleW]

I have found the relevant census return for Tredegar Road, Rhymney - Bedwellty > Tredegar > District 17.

What piece number & folio is it?