Erskine family of Port Glasgow

[hannahjgervaise]

Hi,
Some of my Erskine related family have had a dna match with someone who has a Mary Erskine b. 1821 in Port Glasgow who married a John Lauder at Port Glasgow in 1841 then Alexander Baillie at Greenock in 1855 in their tree. I believe Mary may be the sister or niece of my Jane Erskine b.c 1801 in Renfrewshire.

Is anyone able to search for these marriages while doing their own research at the National Archives or other places?. I don't know which Church Mary married in at Port Glasgow. It could have been the UP Church. I live in Australia and can't look myself except through Scotland's People which is expensive.                                                         

[CaroleW]

6 credits cost £1.50 which will buy you a marriage cert so if you wanted both it is only £3 GB   A marriage cert in England or Wales is considerably more expensive.

The 1855 cert will give you Mary's parents names & her mothers maiden name but the 1841 marriage will only give basic info as it was before Statutory Registration.  You would be better going for the 1855 cert

I can't see any Lauder births from 1841 - 1854 with mmn Erskine on SP

[hannahjgervaise]

For this period in North Cornwall, England the  witnesses were named in Church weddings pre registration so I was hoping that some areas in Scotland would do this. The dna match thinks that Mary's parents were Robert Erskine and Mary Leckie who married at Paisley high Church. The Banns for the Baillie marriage were in December 1854 so I wonder if they got married in the Church soon after and it was only registered on July 5 1855. If both of Mary's parents had died by then it may not give much detail. My Jane Irwin nee Erskine had died by 1855 so would not be a witness so that is why I am interested in the earlier Lauder marriage. I would have to pay  conversion money to pay at Scotland's people. The relative who lives in England is pretty sure Robert is the right ancestor judging by dna matches and record searches so she is going back from there and does not seem interested in buying the Baillie Marriage Certificate.

[hannahjgervaise]

My dna match found the following Lauder births/Baptisms:

Jane/Jean Lauder 1842
Olivia Lauder 1850
John Erskine Lauder 1852 at Greenock East, Renfrewshire

Olivia appears often in my branch of Erskine descendants and it does not appear to be a common first name is Scotland at the time.

[CaroleW]

It doesn't matter whether her parents were alive or dead in 1855 - their names would still go on her marriage cert with (dec'd) after the name

In England - Civil Registration was introduced on 1.7.1837 - in Scotland it was 1855.  Witnesses names were shown both pre & post those dates.  Witnesses were often not family members

In England - only the fathers name is ever shown on a marriage cert - never the mothers name

[CaroleW]

The family is indexed as Lander on the 1851 census

John 35 b Perth
Mary 33 b Port Glasgow
Jean 9 b Port Glasgow
Olivia 1 b Greenock

In 1861 they are in Durham as Baillie but no Olivia

[Forfarian]

I live in Australia and can't look myself except through Scotland's People which is expensive.                                                       

You can access historical Scottish certificates far less expensively than Australian ones.

It costs £1.50 to view a digital image of a historical certificate on Scotland's People. That, at today's exchange rate, is  AUD$2.78.

A New South Wales certificate costs AUD$39 - 13 times the cost of a Scottish one
A Victoria certificate costs AUD$22.50 - just under 7 times the cost of a Scottish one
A Queensland certificate costs AUD$24.70 - over 7 times the cost of a Scottish one
A Western Australia certificate costs AUD$20 - less than 6 times the cost of a Scottish one
A South Australia certificate costs AUD$36.25 - 12 times the cost of a Scottish one

And you get your Scottish image instantly - you don't have to wait for it to come by post.

If you need a formal certificate to prove a relationship, or if you want a recent*, non-historical certificate, a Scottish one does cost £12 and you do have to wait for it to come by post. £12 is AUD$23.85 so it is still cheaper than a certificate from NSW, QLD or SA and similar to the cost of a VIC or WA one.

*Less than 100 years for births, 75 years for marriages and 50 years for deaths.

I don't know which Church Mary married in

She almost certainly didn't get married in a church building at all. Weddings were mostly held in the bride's home or, if she had no parents' home or she married a long way from home, in her employer's house or in the parish manse.

It could have been the UP Church

Her first marriage could not have been celebrated by a UP minister as the UP Church did not exist in 1844. The United Presbyterian Church was formed in 1847 by the union of the United Secession Church and the Relief Church.

Her 1855 marriage certificate should tell you exactly where she was married and by what religious denomination.

[hannahjgervaise]

Forfarian you bring up some good points. The Certificates are a lot cheaper than Australian ones even taking into a/c. conversion rates. I think that they are all sent electronically except Tasmania here.

That is interesting that Marriages tended to be performed in a home. That happened to family in Australia but is was more because some looked Aboriginal and the Priest/Minister would not marry them in the Church but would for the ones they knew were Aboriginal(they lived in a country town) but did not look like it.

I cannot find a marriage for my Jane Erskine but her husband was Irish and Episcopal with the Church not long being reestablished in Scotland where they were living in the 1820s.Also the Church records are mostly in private hands. They both died before the 1851 Census which would have given exact birth places.

The most likely parents of the Mary Erskine mentioned, Robert Erskine and Mary Leckie were married at Paisley High Church in 1820 so it may be worth buying as well. I don't know for sure that Mary and Jane are related but Jane was born in Renfrewshire and had her first known child at Port Glasgow in 1826. My Mum only has one known Scottish line and Ancestry shows that the match to Mary's descendant is on her side as do the other two relatives who match the same person.

[Forfarian]

I cannot find a marriage for my Jane Erskine but her husband was Irish and Episcopal with the Church not long being reestablished in Scotland where they were living in the 1820s.Also the Church records are mostly in private hands.

The baptisms of three children of William Irvine and Jean Erskine are in the Church of Scotland parish registers
Ann, baptised 27 August 1820
Robert Henry H, baptised 7 March 1824
Margaret Anne, baptised 10 January 1827
See screenshot.

It is true that the surviving registers of the Episcopal Church in Scotland are not in the hands of Scotland's People, but I am not sure that there ever were many in Port Glasgow. Neither the Statistical Account of Scotland (1793) nor the New Statistical Account (1845) of Port Glasgow makes any reference to there being any Episcopalians in that parish. Have a look for yourself at https://stataccscot.ed.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/home

The most likely parents of the Mary Erskine mentioned, Robert Erskine and Mary Leckie were married at Paisley High Church in 1820 so it may be worth buying as well.

They were married in the parish of Paisley High Church. This does not mean that they were married in the actual church building.

However as this is before the start of civil registration (1 January 1855) it is a church record and may not contain any useful additional information.

The first thing you need to do is view that 1855 marriage certificate. It will tell you the names of Mary Erskine's parents, including her mother's maiden surname, and remove any doubt about that. It will also tell you whether or not they were dead by the time of her marriage.