Family using three surnames

[Deirdre784]

Hi, looking for advice / suggestions about a family who appear to be using three surnames (not at the same time). 

Apologies for the long post but hoping someone will be interested in reading.

This follows on from a previous post
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889306.0 where i was looking for my husband’s great grandfather, one William Williams 🙄 We knew little about him before finding an obituary a few weeks ago saying he was from Llandegwning. I am fairly sure i’ve found him in 1891 [Class: RG12, Piece: 4651, Folio: 126, page: 5] Coed Coch, Llandegwning, with his grandparents William Williams born about 1825 in Rhiw, and his wife Ann(e) born about 1824 in Aberech. A number of other grandchildren are there too, along with 2 unmarried daughters of William and Ann(e). The 1871 [class RG10, piece 5706, folio 6, page 3], 1881 [class RG11, piece 5558, folio 19, page 2] and 1901 [class RG13, piece 5266, folio 98, page 2] censuses show the family (William and Ann(e)) at the same address, with various children and grandchildren over the years.

I tried to find William and Ann(e) before 1871, and their marriage, so i could try and sort out / confirm their children. Bad enough with a Williams surname but just about impossible without a mother’s maiden name.

But then jonwarrn found an amazing entry in 1861 [class RG9, piece 4331, folio 28, page 4] of a family called OWEN, at Cefn Coch, Llandegwning…. William, born around 1825 in Rhiw, Ann(e) around 1824 in Aberech, with children Lowry (not known before), but others who match later censuses as Williams.

To add to the puzzle Mabel Bagshawe then found (in 1851 in Llanengan) [class HO107, piece 2513, folio 442, page 2] what appears to be the same family but listed as ROWLAND, not yet at Cefn Coch, but same details matching for William and Ann(e). Lowry is an 8 month old baby. I risked buying a birth certificate for a Laura Rowlands, which looks to be a match, born on 18 July 1850, at Aberech, father William Rowlands, labourer, mother Ann, formerly Jones. Registered only a week later by Ann, but now of Llanengan.

Can this really be the same family? Any suggestions for the name change?

[Deirdre784]

Another quick question…. the 1891 has a few slash marks - is this likely to show the children from the separate families, eg are Ann aged 12 and Mary aged 3 likely to belong to Mary?

[collwyn ap tangno]

Yes, I’ve seen other examples. The census and more so the 1836 to register births officially had the effect of fixing surnames. It appears that people were happy to be known by the authorities as one name but they continue to use the father’s first name locally. I’ve seen examples of say williams in 1841, jones in 1851 and then back to williams in 1861.

Scribes also had an influence, If john Williams had a son who was known only as owen jones who, in turn had  a son called robert owen all in the same household, the scribe would give them all a williams surname.  If John willliams dies before the next census ( or isn’t the head), the whole household switches to Jones and so on.  The family haven’t changed their name it’s just a different system.  The scribes were probably ‘encouraged’ to disregard the Welsh system.

[Deirdre784]

Oh wow, thanks, doubt i’ll ever sort them out then 🙁

[collwyn ap tangno]

I’ve never given the slash marks much thought! I thought they were tallying them against summary sheets.

[Deirdre784]

I know the solid lines indicated a change of family within the same house, but these are less definite. If they are, it might help me narrow down my William’s birth as Jane died aged 10, and i know from that that her mother was Catherine (another of William and Ann’s daughters but not with them).

[Ayashi]

2 Williams, 2 Marys and 3 Anns in the same house? That must have been a riot 

[Deirdre784]

2 Williams, 2 Marys and 3 Anns in the same house? That must have been a riot 

Horrendous