Hiding somewhere in Wigan

[andrewalston]

I'm looking into a CAHILL family in the Wigan area. The family were RC, so not many events are online. The surname appears to be Irish; others in the district originate there.

John and Elizabeth had six children:
John b Q4 1882
Sarah b Q3 1884
Rose Ann b Q1 1887
Maria b 13 Apr 1889 (registered as CARL)
Elizabeth b 14 Sep 1891
Margaret b Q2 1895
All these have a mother's maiden name of HAWLEY or close approximation.

In 1901 and later, Elizabeth is widowed, and claims to be born about 1859 in Leigh. She died in 1924 and is buried in a shared grave.

I can't find a marriage for John and Elizabeth.

I can't find the family in 1891.

I can't reliably find John or Elizabeth before then either.

Maria was born in Ince. Elizabeth was born at Danson's Square, Wigan. The family are not at either address in the 1891 census. I have both these birth certs; Elizabeth made her mark both times. John is a colliery surface labourer in 1889, a coke burner in 1891.

There is a death and burial of a John Cahill in 1890. The burial mentions Adelaide Street, which is where the family were living in 1901.

Maria and Rose Ann are the sort of names which ought to be indexed, but I've not had any luck on Ancestry or FindMyPast.

Any ideas?

[Kay99]

1891 - Some of them? 4  Dansons Square Wigan

George   Westby   Head 50   Colliery labourer   Bolton, Lancashire, England
Mary   Westby   Wife 40   Bolton, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth   Carrol   Boarder  Married   36   Cotton factory operative   Leigh, Lancashire
Jane   Carrol Boarder 7   Cotton factory operative ?  Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Maria   Carrol   Boarder 2    Ince, Lancashire, England

[Kay99]

Jane above is transcibed as 17 but I originally thought the number looked more like 7 but maybe could be 17 

[emeltom]

Even if it was an RC marriage, in theory if it took plave then the GRO should have it indexed.

The closest I can find is John Cahill married Elizabeth Holley in 1874 at Wigan Register Office

Dec 1874 Wigan 8c 116

If John died in 1890 then who is the father of Elizabeth and Margaret?

[DCB]

Just found the same marriage.

Also, there was a Jane Carrol, mmn Hawley, registered in Wigan in 1875.

Jane and Maria, b 1889, are with their mother, as Carrol, in Wigan in 1891. Elizabeth born in Leigh.

[andrewalston]

Great spot! I'm convinced it's the right family.

I'm trying to think why I missed them. 

All I have to do now is find them in 1881 and I'll know where John came from!

[andrewalston]

Even if it was an RC marriage, in theory if it took plave then the GRO should have it indexed.

The closest I can find is John Cahill married Elizabeth Holley in 1874 at Wigan Register Office

Dec 1874 Wigan 8c 116

If John died in 1890 then who is the father of Elizabeth and Margaret?

The marriage looks good.

The "father" of the later children could easily be the reason why John is not home!

[DCB]

There is a strange entry for a Jane Cail, born 1874 in Pemberton, in 1881, daughter of Elizabeth, together with brother, John, b 1881.

I can't find a births that fit the surname.

Her parents are William Nancy Garner. Possible marriage on 26th April 1858 of William to Nancy Midcalfe, although a spinster, aged 40.

There was an Elizabeth Hawley, born 1854 in Leigh, mmn Midcalf.

[andrewalston]

I'd found that one too. CA-IL seems a decent bet.

I'm trying to work out how that family fits together. Stepchildren make it more difficult.