New York City - marriage look-up

[thedesman1]

Hi

I'm having difficulty finding a marriage record for my ancestors Patrick McLoughlin (1872-1945) and Bridget Brogan (1869-1938).  Both were born in County Mayo, Ireland.  They married on 3 June 1901 in New York City at The Chapel of Our Lady of the Rosary, 7 State Street.  They emigrated to Glasgow, Scotland shortly after and started a family.

I would really like to see the official record if possible, any help would be appreciated.

[oldohiohome]

I looked at 3 different sites and didn't find the record.
https://www.italiangen.org/

https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/

https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/

I mostly used Bridget Brogan's name in the search because McLaughlin can be spelled a few different ways. I tried widening out the years as well beyond just 1901.

Sounds like the information is from a record in Scotland, correct?

Maybe they didn't remember the date.  Assuming they registered the marriage, can you narrow down the possible date range? Like when were they last seen anywhere but NYC, when was the earliest they were seen in NYC, when was the earliest they are found in Glasgow? When was the first child born?

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There are lots of hits on name and address of the church, if you haven't found them yet.

[shellyesq]

In that era, the Catholic Church (among other religions) was publicly resistant to civil registration of marriages in NY City, so sometimes the priests deliberately did not register the marriage.  Also, sometimes the papers didn't get filed with the city by mistake.

My husband has ancestors who were also from Ireland and married in NY City in 1901.  I got the church record from Find My Past (they used to have the images of parish marriages, but they were later removed & now it is just a transcription), but I have never found a civil record despite looking in the places mentioned above by oldohiohome in every possible combination I could think of. 

You can order the church record from the Archdiocese of New York for a fee - https://archny.org/ministries-and-offices/archives/genealogy/

[thedesman1]

Thanks both.  Interesting to hear your thoughts on this.  The marriage date 3 June 1901 is noted on the Scottish birth record of their daughter Catherine McLoughlin born in 1903.  I also have the physical marriage certificate although it's not in great condition.  I tried to attach the documents here but the chat thread doesn't seem to have the option to attach images here.

Both the certificate and the Scottish record show the same marriage date so I'm confident that it's correct.  It may well be that it wasn't officially registered but I might see if it's possible to order it.

Really appreciate your assistance, thank you

[shellyesq]

Find My Past shows the same date and church too. 

[thedesman1]

Amazing!  I found on the church website that they claim to have transcribed all marriages to Find my Past, really great to see it there.

I was also wondering if both Patrick McLoughlin (1872-1945) and Bridget Brogan (1869-1938) would be on any ship passenger lists (outward/inward)?

They were from County Mayo so I'm not sure which port they would have sailed from but I would imagine they travelled in 1901 but perhaps earlier?

[oldohiohome]

Could this be them? The timing matches.


Arriving NYC 31 May 1901, on the Germanic, from Queenstown, 23 May 1901
(Ancestry's image 3 of this set)

Patk McLoughlin 24, married, laborer, Irish, last residence: Ballina, destination: Scranton, PA, cousin A Goodwin, 536 Beech St, Scranton, never in US before, never in an almshouse, health: good R.S.

Bridget (ditto) but note says Broghan, 19, married, house keeper, Irish, last residence: Ballina, destination: 536 Beech St, Scranton, PA, never in US before, never in an almshouse, health: (Pgt)

They were possibly traveling with James Quinn, 21, and Bridget Murray, 20, both form Ballina.

(on Ancestry's image 38)
Record of Aliens held for Special Inquiry
Germanic from Queenstown and Liverpool, arrived May 31, 1901
lines 4 and 5
Bridget McLoughlin, group F, number 2, cause for detention: L.P.C. Single, Pgt, with F-1 [Patrick]. deferred: June 1, page 19. excluded June 1, page 31. deported: June 5, on the Germanic. had been provided with 5 breakfasts, lunches, and dinners.
Patrick McLoughlin, group 5, number 1, cause for detention: L.P.C. with F-2 [Bridget]. deferred: June 1, page 20. excluded June 1, page 32. deported: June 5, on the Germanic. had been provided with 5 breakfasts, lunches, and dinners.

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/7488/records/4037622925?tid=&pid=&queryId=bbdfec8d-8d87-446c-ab42-39b17d91c64f&_phsrc=cQQ267&_phstart=successSource

L.P.C. = Likely Public Charge - (Left Margin) – Introduced in 1891 as an
exclusion and it was the most common grounds for detention. The “Cause
of Detention” would note to whom the immigrant was released, such as a
Husband, Father, Brother, Uncle, Cousin, etc. The “Disposition” was the
address where the immigrant planned to go after release. “Discharged”
shows the date and time of departure. Often, immigrant aid societies
assisted travelers like the YMCA, DAR, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society,
Salvation Army, Traveler’s Aid Society, Roman Catholic church, and ethnic
groups.

https://static.libnet.info/frontend-images/pdfs/acpl/Genealogy/Mysterious_Codes_-_Christine_Cohen_2023_.pdf

possible reasons for exclusion include pregnancy. see further down that page.

[oldohiohome]

Here is a link to the manifest on a free site, stevemorse.org
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmu/

frame 640 is the information about their detention.
frame 675 of that group is their passenger record.

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here is the index information for the page about the detention. it will help you find it on another site.

Series       Roll       Volume       Year       Month       Day       
T715              201           329       1901       May           31   

Frame       Ship       Port                                   FHL roll
640       Germanic       Queenstown/Liverpool       1403951

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if that is them, the next few questions are: why didn't they get married in Ireland? were they too closely related for the Church but not for the U.S.? When and where was the child born that Bridget was pregnant with? Did Patrick really have a cousin in Scranton named A.Goodwin?

[thedesman1]

Fantastic! Looks highly plausible that it's them, aside from their approx age, everything else seems to match-up.
My grandmother (Patrick and Bridget's granddaughter) recalls that Patrick's parents 'disapproved' of him marrying Bridget and that was apparently why they eloped in New York - possibly they discovered she was pregnant outside of marriage.  They were both from the Ballina area of County Mayo but not sure how closely related they would have been to one another.  I also know that their first child Patrick McLoughlin was born in 1901 (day/month unknown) in Glasgow Scotland and their second child Catherine McLoughlin was born in Glasgow 1903.  As for the cousin A.Goodwin - unknown, possibly a story he invented.