Looking for Edward Rogers

[jonwarrn]

Well you've been able to find more sureties by those two than I can!
There is a death of a Richard Rogers, Blacksmith, in Durban on 19 November 1868.
Age 39, which does match with the Richard Rogers junior from Smethcott.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91Q-QSB6-4

Possible marriage to Harriet Wood, 8 June 1850
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TWT-93PR

She was a widow. Both of full age.
It was by licence. It says consent given by parents, which is strange?
Witnesses George Williamson, Margaret Bayly or Bayley

Baptism of Elvester in 1854 (born 1852) The name Bayly pops up again here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TW1-KXS

Baptisms of three more children, John, George and Robert, 21 September 1858
One of the sponsors is Ann Rogers.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TWY-N7G

Did he marry again in 1864? Spouse is Margaret Bayly!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TW1-YZK

Ann Rogers was a witness. Who was she?

[jonwarrn]

Trying to find William Rogers, baptized in Smethcott in 1815, one of the children of Richard & Sarah, and we have a marriage in Warrington, 20 January 1845.
William Rogers and Elizabeth Helsby.

He is 28, she is 26, both single.
Residence for both Bank Street.
William Rogers is a Gardener.
His father is Roger Rogers, Blacksmith! Hoping that Roger is an error for Richard.

Elizabeth's father is James Helsby, Bricklayer.
Witnesses John Rogers and Ellen Helsby.
Faint image of the marriage here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96J-3J5R

Partial transcript here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFNQ-WN8

A fuller transcript can be found on Lancashire OPC.
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Birth of a daughter
ROGERS, ELIZABETH  ANN-HELSBY     
Mother's Maiden Surname: HELSBY 
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in WIRRAL UNION  Volume 19  Page 438

I think that her mum died at this time 
ROGERS, ELIZABETH       
Age at Death (in years): 31 
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in WIRRAL UNION  Volume 19  Page 261

Burial at Wodchurch of Elizabeth Elsby Rogers, 27 May 1850. Age 31
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3T5-HX3

[jonwarrn]

Something exciting, perhaps!
Have we stumbled across Edward Rogers from Smethcott in the 1851 census?
I think there has been a mix up here with places of birth. But I don't have access to the image tonight.

The widowed William Rogers is in Oxton, Cheshire.
This is what I have been able to glean from the available free transcript and indexes.
Piece 2174 Folio 58 Page 10 in enumeration district 2c
Household Schedule 46
Poplar Road, possibly living Poplar Place
William Rogers Head Wid 35 Gardener, born Shropshire Smethcott
Elizabeth Ann Helsby Rogers Daur 10 mo born Cheshire Oxton
(then presumably the following birthplaces have been dittoed from hers?)
Sarah Rogers Mother in law Wid 56 House Keeper Cheshire Oxton
Edmund Rogers Brother Unm 27 Gardener Cheshire Oxton
Ann Rogers Sister Unm 33 Cheshire Oxton
Harriet Rawlings Unm 15 Servant Cheshire Oxton

See FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG2N-CQX

A puzzle here is Sarah. I thought "our" Sarah died in 1850. And apparently it says mother in law. So need to find out more about Elizabeth Helsby's family.

[Ladyhawk]

Jonwarrn

You are correct Edmund’s pob has been dittoed

[jonwarrn]

Hi
Thank you very much, Ladyhawk! Very kind of you to look that up.
So I am hoping it's the place of birth of those three Rogers (or two of them, anyway) that is wrong, not their surname!
John

[Ladyhawk]

A puzzle here is Sarah. I thought "our" Sarah died in 1850. And apparently it says mother in law.

So need to find out more about Elizabeth Helsby's family.

I think this is Elizabeth’s baptism father James occ bricklayer and her parents marriage

Elizabeth Helsby
Baptism 30 May 1819 Hale, Lancashire
Father   James Helsby Mother   Ellen
Register Type   Bishop's Transcripts

James Helsby, bricklayer
Marriage 26 Oct 1818 Parish Hale, Lancashire
Spouse   Ellen Hooker
Register Type   Bishop's Transcript

[Ladyhawk]

Trying to find William Rogers, baptized in Smethcott in 1815, one of the children of Richard & Sarah, and we have a marriage in Warrington, 20 January 1845.
William Rogers and Elizabeth Helsby.

He is 28, she is 26, both single.
Residence for both Bank Street.
William Rogers is a Gardener.
His father is Roger Rogers, Blacksmith! Hoping that Roger is an error for Richard.

It looks as if widowed William remarries

Marriage 11 Oct 1869 Liverpool, St Nicholas, Lancashire
William Rogers, occ gardener
Father Richard Rogers, blacksmith
Spouse   Eliza Ebrell

1871
Piece   3752
Folio   70
Page number   46
William Rogers   Head 55 Smetheath, Shropshire, occ gardener
Eliza Rogers 39 Wife
William Rogers 8 mths Son
Ellen Ebbrell15 Stepdaughter
Christian H Wenlock 46 Lodger

[Karytay]

So if Edward WAS born in Shropshire all people mentioned could be relatives and family. For the names are all more or less the same, as mentioned before.
It is a pity I cannot find anything more in South Africa that can help.

[jonwarrn]

I think having Edward/Edmund from Smethcott in 1851 (albeit with the wrong place of birth recorded!) is a step forward, as he has the gardener occupation that matches the marriage in 1852.

I wonder if sister Ann, still unmarried in 1851, went to South Africa as well and could be the Ann Rogers who appears in records for Richard junior there?
But I can't see anything in SA about her at all.

Sarah Rogers in Oxton in 1851 may have died in 1853
ROGERS, SARAH       
Age at Death (in years): 64 
GRO Reference: 1853  J Quarter in WIRRAL  Volume 08A  Page 286

Age up on that given in the previous census, but possibly more appropriate.
Buried, like William's wife, at Woodchurch (the parish for Oxton), 15 May 1853. I don't think we have an image anywhere.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3T5-CN5

The death certificate (available from the GRO as a £3 digital image) might clear up whether she was the widow of Richard the blacksmith, or not.

I am thinking that on Edward's second marriage, there may be a mistake for his place of birth.
He said Shropshire, but it was misheard as Yorkshire.