Keogh and Toomy family in Ballymore Eustace, County Wicklow

[poeticgardener]

Thank you for all this research. I am going to have to do some more sorting as I have a baptism for Darby on 16 Sep 1810 and Ann Toomy on 30 Sep 1812. I would have thought these dates were more in keeping with their marriage in 1829. The Darby baptism in 1797 would make him quite old for his marriage to Ann.
I know Patrick, born about 1831 and his Irish Constabulary Records were from 1853 to 1860 in Wicklow Ireland.¹ Enlisted in the Royal Irish Constabulary. Age listed as 19. and occupation as labourer.
Service No 17472
Service period 16 Aug 1853 to 22 Sep 1860.
He migrated to Australia in 1861 on ship British Trident.
The townland, tithes and Griffith's  information is a great help. Will certainly be doing some more fossicking trying to work out the connections.
I hope to visit this area later this year.

[Wexflyer]

Thank you for all this research. I am going to have to do some more sorting as I have a baptism for Darby on 16 Sep 1810 and Ann Toomy on 30 Sep 1812.

When I check 30/9/1812 baptisms on NLI microfilms, I see a baptism of an Anne KEATING.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633342?locale=en#page/61/mode/1up

Similarly, when I check 16/9/1810, I see a baptism of a JAMES Keogh
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633342?locale=en#page/54/mode/1up

[Wexflyer]

I know Patrick, born about 1831 and his Irish Constabulary Records were from 1853 to 1860 in Wicklow Ireland.¹ Enlisted in the Royal Irish Constabulary. Age listed as 19. and occupation as labourer.

Well, that puts the cat amongst the pigeons on several fronts.

First, if he was from Wicklow he could not have served in that county. So if you are stating that he was stationed in Wicklow, then he could not have been born there. Which is consistent with him being from the Kildare portion of Ballymore Eustace.

More importantly, though, is you say he was a laborer.  That is completely inconsistent with the Dardenstown Keoghs. It is also inconsistent with Australian records (posted by OP in other threads), where it was stated that Darby Keogh was a farmer. It was on that basis that I put effort into looking through the tythe and Griffith's valuations for farms. But if the eldest son, Patrick, was a laborer, then I can't see how Darby was a farmer. Could well be a case of "undocumented social promotion", which did happen - i.e. claiming a higher status than they actually had.  And if Darby was in reality a laborer, then he would not appear in the tythe valuations, and might not be in Griffith's (of course he could also have been dead by the time of Griffith's).

If Darby was a laborer, it could also explain a minor mystery: why several of his children don't seem to appear in the Ballymore Eustace parish records. Laborers could move from farm to farm for work, so some years he might not have been in the parish.

[shanreagh]

I know Patrick, born about 1831 and his Irish Constabulary Records were from 1853 to 1860 in Wicklow Ireland.¹ Enlisted in the Royal Irish Constabulary. Age listed as 19. and occupation as labourer.

Well, that puts the cat amongst the pigeons on several fronts.

First, if he was from Wicklow he could not have served in that county. So if you are stating that he was stationed in Wicklow, then he could not have been born there. Which is consistent with him being from the Kildare portion of Ballymore Eustace.

.....

This is an important point.  because  the life in the RIC was interwoven with the life of the community in which they served it would place an impossible burden on what was often a sole postion in trying to police within an area where kinfolk lived. 

So I would check the RIC records, if you are sure he was in the RIC and as a first cut look at the Co Wicklow born ones but don't expect them to be serving in Co Wicklow.   But then that does exclude them from being in Co Wicklow at important times of record like marriages, births of children etc.

[Wexflyer]

Patrick Tumey married Catherine Burke, Ballymore Eustace, 01/4/1798

There is a headstone to the memory of Patrick and Catherine Toomey in St. Kevins Catholic graveyard, Hollywood. Died 1840.

[poeticgardener]

For Anne Toomey's birth of 1812 it is in the records for the parish of Blackditches which I had been told was absorbed as part of Ballymore Eustace around 1830.
The Darcy I had being baptised in 1810 is
 https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633342?locale=en#page/54/mode/1up. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong line but not sure how to check this.

I appreciate all the detail about the Irish Constabulary and it makes perfect sense with Patricks's records showing he was often in Hollywood.

When I relooked at Catherine's shipping details they state that she sailed on the ship the Northumberland. It left Plymouth 8 Aug 1862 and arrived Australia 12 Nov 1862.
She is listed as coming from Ballymore, County Wicklow, Roman Catholic, a house servant and can read.

So I am confused about the changing counties and parishes.

[poeticgardener]

To make things even more confusing on Catherine's marriage certificate her parents are listed as Dermot Keogh and Ann Toomy and Dermot is a farmer and she is from County Wicklow. However on her death certificate her father is listed as Nicholas Keogh and her mother Bridget Toomey. I am wondering if these are actually the names of her grandparents.

[poeticgardener]

Sorry forgot to include that on her death certificate it says she was from County Kildare.

[shanreagh]

To make things even more confusing on Catherine's marriage certificate her parents are listed as Dermot Keogh and Ann Toomy and Dermot is a farmer and she is from County Wicklow. However on her death certificate her father is listed as Nicholas Keogh and her mother Bridget Toomey. I am wondering if these are actually the names of her grandparents.

Marriage certificates are mostly usually seen as more reliable, by geneaogists, than death certificates. The reason for this is that the details are given by the person themselves. The name I think would be Darby which is interchangeable with Dermot. if Catherine did not write she would be depending on someone who did.

As for death certificates these can be unreliable. Often completed by the next generation at a time of great stress, sadness  and confusion. *

Who completed the death registration please? Have you links to both of the certificates that we can see?


* on a personal note, when my mother died we found that avid genealogist that she was, she had written on a copy of a death certificate form, the correct details to go on her death certificate. She had come across instances, when researching,  where those registering the death had put the wrong details down.