Author Topic: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Darian Zam

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #18 on: Monday 09 June 25 05:50 BST (UK) »
I feel pretty sure I'd already done that before I'd established this thread. NZ Archives is one of my top 5 resources as you can get great intel from what's hidden in wills and probates. Now we know she may have died early on (assuming the 1890s for now, based on new intel) it explains why she is not mentioned by anyone. Any estate would have gone to her husband's siblings although at this moment we do not know who her husband was.

 
Hi Darian Zam,

Following on from Lucy2's suggestion, if either of her parents, her uncles/aunts or her siblings left a Will she might be mentioned.

Regards,

Spades

Offline Darian Zam

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #19 on: Monday 09 June 25 06:04 BST (UK) »
Can you elaborate on 'for a time'? Off the top of my head I think I've seen it going on as late as 1935. This issue has been a hot topic with anothe researcher I've been collaborating with as seemingly old records in NZ and various states of Australia are ALL different and a recent discovery was the facsimiles of original older VIC death certs included this info on all issues, similar to NZ. We discovered that not all of the issues listed end up in databases. It was a heady time of people travelling frequently around and in between 2 countries following work whether that was coal or gold. Sometimes kids just got lost in the propwash. I had one great aunt I wasn't aware of who arrived as an infant to the West Coast NZ in 1888 and then effectively disappears. We have no further info and she was never mentioned until I found a record. I know from other researchj projects based in colonial communities that it wasn't uncommon for infants and young children at death to be buried informally.Locally, usually under a tree that was in sight of the dwelling. Sometimes there was simply no cemetery, no storage, no coroner, no nearby town or city. You'd get an apple box or a wood tool box or whatever was handy if you were lucky, and a makeshift marker perhaps.


Hi Darian Zam,

Following on from Lucy2's suggestion, if either of her parents, her uncles/aunts or her siblings left a Will she might be mentioned.

Regards,

Spades

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,709
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #20 on: Monday 09 June 25 06:18 BST (UK) »


BDM New Zealand
TYREE Mary Hodgman    ps Ann Catherine / William  1872/697

Can you please list all the information on this birth record.

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 44,067
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 11 June 25 15:52 BST (UK) »
Just adding this from the other thread

Kentish Independent 4th May 1901
A Woolwich Mystery
The bodies of a Man and a Woman were found in the Thames last week, and at the inquest a verdict of "Found Drowned' was returned.  On Saturday the deceased man was identified as Arthur E Grant, a Steward formerly employed on the P&O Liner Moravian. He and a young woman from Australia, whose name was Mary Tyrel, had been living together at the house of Mrs Harden, 28 Westdale Road, Plumstead and the woman was expecting to become a mother

Kentish Mail & Greenwich and Deptford Observer - May 3rd 1901 had this added

They left the house on Monday April 22nd, and after leaving the woman came back and threw her arms around Mrs Harden's neck and kissed her saying I regret that I have given you trouble you are a good woman. On the following day their bodies were found in the river. It has been stated they had become reduced almost to a state of destitution

Also in Lloyds Weekly Newspaper 28th April
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Darian Zam

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 11 June 25 18:52 BST (UK) »
Wow. I think this must be it! I don't think there were any other Mary Tyrees in Australasia that qualify. The others were as stated cousins or other relatives - and another Mary Tyree in Australia who was a later generation is ruled out, attached to another family in no way connected that we know of. Thank you so much. Very exciting to think we may have it finally.

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 44,067
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 12 June 25 09:39 BST (UK) »
There are lots of replies on your other post which you have not responded to so we don't know if you have seen them
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=252114.18

Also please note the newspaper refers to her as Tyrel though at that time she had not been indentified if she ever was
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Darian Zam

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 12 June 25 14:23 BST (UK) »
My mistake neither left a will, actually. I guess technically I am right she was not mentioned in either  :D


Hi Darian Zam,

Following on from Lucy2's suggestion, if either of her parents, her uncles/aunts or her siblings left a Will she might be mentioned.

Regards,

Spades

Offline Darian Zam

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 12 June 25 20:35 BST (UK) »
As suspected the press made a mistake in reportage. The Moravian was not P&O, it was White Star. Therefore Polly met Arthur on her passage between Sydney and London when he was working as a steward and they started an affair and she became pregnant. This would have happened by Dec 1900 and she obviously knew and told him when he returned from further runs in early Jan 1901, and they had moved in together probably around Woolwich somewhere by early Feb. They were not at Plumstead until early April as the census end Mar 1901 shows they are not residing there.
Also as suspected it is likely the loss of his job had something to do with this as well as the fact Arthur moved out of his parents' home.
It is highly likely that John Grant retells a sanitized version of the story as more was known at the time than he lets on. He would have known that Polly was not some random woman who fell in the water and his son just happened to be strolling by and tried to come to the rescue but he decided to influence the story to make it more palatable.
I am not sure how accessible London papers were in Australia and New Zealand so how quick news was able to be conveyed. Telephones existed but were not common at this time, the first trans-Atlantic call took until 1927 but perhaps telegrams were popular by this time. Mary's sister in law Alice Tyree was still keeping a diary and writing letters and cards on their 1905 journey to London, published in 1996 by Arbour Press as 'A Budget of News.' She does not mention anything about Polly in it although, I will read it again to make sure I didn't miss anything.
I digress, Alfred Tyree, Alice's husband and Polly's brother, may have asked the manager of the London office to keep an eye on the press for any articles so they were informed (on how to not attract any attention to themselves).





Just adding this from the other thread

Kentish Independent 4th May 1901
A Woolwich Mystery
The bodies of a Man and a Woman were found in the Thames last week, and at the inquest a verdict of "Found Drowned' was returned.  On Saturday the deceased man was identified as Arthur E Grant, a Steward formerly employed on the P&O Liner Moravian. He and a young woman from Australia, whose name was Mary Tyrel, had been living together at the house of Mrs Harden, 28 Westdale Road, Plumstead and the woman was expecting to become a mother

Kentish Mail & Greenwich and Deptford Observer - May 3rd 1901 had this added

They left the house on Monday April 22nd, and after leaving the woman came back and threw her arms around Mrs Harden's neck and kissed her saying I regret that I have given you trouble you are a good woman. On the following day their bodies were found in the river. It has been stated they had become reduced almost to a state of destitution

Also in Lloyds Weekly Newspaper 28th April

Offline spades

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,478
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #26 on: Friday 13 June 25 02:59 BST (UK) »
Congratulations on finally finding Mary Tyree, Danien Zam :) :) :)

You brought her home at last.

Regards,

Spades
ELLERKER - Beverley ERY ENG
HEALEY - IRL?
MURDOCH - Wigtownshire SCT, Otago and Westland NZ
PALING - Nottinghamshire ENG
RILEY - Flamborough; Cottingham; South Dalton ERY, Manitoba CAN, & London ENG
STURTON - Arnold, Nottinghamshire ENG
SUTTRON - All, NRY & DUR ENG
TAYLOR - London ENG
TYLER - London ENG
TERNAN/TIERNAN - Dublin IRL