Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand

[Darian Zam]

You're correct on the second point. Technically it cannot be 'evidence' because I can't 100% prove it. I draw what I consider an accurate conclusion by process of elimination and say it's 90% Polly Tyree
Based on the age of the girl in the portrait being somewhere between age 14-21.

https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/37684/tyree-miss-m
https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/56649/tyree-miss

There are two other close family members taken in one of the sessions with her around the same period. 
Firstly Mary Ann Cross Tyree, who was Polly's sister-in-law/wife of the photographer and Polly's brother William Tyree Jr., b 1848.

https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/41157/tyree

Secondly William Jr Tyree and Mary Ann Cross Tyree's son James Arthur Vivian Tyree b 1878.

https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/35349/tyree-mrs-and-arthur

I can compare the appearance of age between them and to other studio portraits of the era to get the general idea this session was likely done between 1885-1889. I then can compare them with the portraits of 'Miss/M Tyree' to get a pretty good idea of her age.

'Miss M. Tyree' is the title as noted in provenance by Nelson Provincial Museum upon accession of the studio collection.  I assume this to be Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree, as there were 11 siblings in total from William Tyree Sr.'s various relationships and she was the only one whose name began or had middle name M. Now looking in that local tree branch and surrounds for any females who would fit the age bracket; there are maybe 3-4 in this local branch and close surrounds and she is the only M. William Tyree Jr. and Fred Tyree only photographed family members pretty immediate to their branch of the tree at Tyree Bros Studio. Sisters, brothers, in-laws, their children, nieces, nephews.

Why am I convinced it’s her? Because this same girl did sessions with 'Miss/Kate Tyree'

https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/37124/tyree-miss
https://collection.nelsonmuseum.co.nz/objects/37901/tyree-kate

While 'Miss/M Tyree' looked fairly similar to her sister Kitty Cannon (Katherine Tyree), b 1871 they were not identical, they had different noses, and Kate was to be frank a bit prettier. With a number of images taken at the same time , it is fairly obvious they are not the same person and you can ascertain the difference.

At the end of this, whether it's proven 'Miss/M Tyree' in the portraits is Polly or not, is a moot point because all it would do is underline she was still around family until about 1890 before she 'disappears.' This would not as it stands  actually answer any questions.

I can't recall where the information came from on her nickname being 'Polly.' This is nearly ten years ago now. The same source that quoted her sister Katherine Tyree as 'Kitty' and 'Kate' to the family. Probably a tree by a descendant on Mundia, now defunct and non-existent as reference. 'Polly' was a common nickname given to Mary and more so Mary Ann, for no explicable reason in the same way Keiths are often nicknamed 'Nobby.' So this is not unusual or out of the question and again, doesn't really have any bearing on answers to the mystery except as an additional tool for search terms.

Hello

Was also just about to query why the title of this topic has her name as
"Mary Ann (Polly) TYREE"   ??

Incidentally, her mother's christian name was spelled as "Ann" (Ann Catherine) in other records (death notice / death 1885 etc. )

Also curious to know how it is that you have knowledge that her "nickname" was "Polly"  ??

You have said ...

"Two pieces of evidence that Polly actually existed
    ...   NZ Birth record listing 1872/697   [ yes    )

but ... the photo from Nelson Provincial Museum -  ex TYREE Bros. portraits ... cannot really be regarded as "evidence of existence".

    ~  Lu

[Darian Zam]

Sorry I don't know what 'The Kiwi Collection' is.

Who is this Mary Tyree? At school in 1879

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18791213.2.26.2?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=Mary+tyree&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA

Does this one appear in school records in the Kiwi Collection?

[Darian Zam]

Oh, sorry, I see now. That was an error, from lack of sleep. Ironically I was thinking 'don't mess up the title and confuse people like you did a previous time' whilst typing it. proceeds to put Ann instead of Hodgman SMH. Psychosomatic mistake. I've been using 'Mary Ann' as an alt search term because of 'Polly' more often being a nickname for Mary Ann rather than just Mary. Fixed.

Hello

Was also just about to query why the title of this topic has her name as
"Mary Ann (Polly) TYREE"   ??

Incidentally, her mother's christian name was spelled as "Ann" (Ann Catherine) in other records (death notice / death 1885 etc. )

Also curious to know how it is that you have knowledge that her "nickname" was "Polly"  ??

You have said ...

"Two pieces of evidence that Polly actually existed
    ...   NZ Birth record listing 1872/697   [ yes    )

but ... the photo from Nelson Provincial Museum -  ex TYREE Bros. portraits ... cannot really be regarded as "evidence of existence".

    ~  Lu

[mckha489]

Sorry I don't know what 'The Kiwi Collection' is.

The kiwi collection is on the NZ Soc of genealogists website. It requires an additional subscription to the basic NZSG one, and at present I don’t have it.   But it does have a lot of the school records compiled by local groups over the years. Whether it has ones applicable to your search I cannot say, as cannot log in.

[Lucy2]

Hello Darian Zam

Do you, (or those you are researching for), have the death records for  >
   
   *   Ann Catherine TYREE - d. 1885
   *   William (snr.) TYREE - d. 1889

[ NZ death record = note that "a printout", (a copy of the actual register entry), will contain more information than a death certificate.]

Provision was made from 1875, for the ages of living children of the deceased person, to be included in their death record.

Q.     Do these death records show that a child of approximate age /birth year to that of the daughter Mary Hodgman TYREE, was alive in 1885 / 1889 ?

   ~  Lu

[shanreagh]

Aha good point Lu.

I keep forgetting this invaluable inclusion that NZ death Certificates had for a time. 

[spades]

Hi Darian Zam,

Following on from Lucy2's suggestion, if either of her parents, her uncles/aunts or her siblings left a Will she might be mentioned.

Regards,

Spades

[Darian Zam]

We have some potential intel that she may have drowned in London. That's pretty much it. She was allegedly married, on holiday, accidentally drowned in the Thames. That's all we've got. Any suggestions?

[Darian Zam]

Yes William and Fred Tyree were the sons of William Snr, Mary (Polly) Tyree was a daughter. Their half brother Alfred later better known as a successful manufacturer/industrialist also had an earlier career as a photographer. Their uncle James Tyree is considered an early colonial photographer of Australasia. He worked in Ballarat, Arrarat, Grampians and Dunedin, Queenstown etc at various times, traveling back and forth between the countries capitalizing on the swelling communities fromed around the gold rushes. So it is of little doubt that the three Tyree brothers learned the craft from him.

Just swinging around the traps as they say:

Brother of Mary Hodgman Tyree. NB Mary has a name from the  father's family  while john has the mother's maiden name

1874/47657   Tyree   John Baker   Ann Catherine   William

is this the death of JB Tyree aged 2-3 months?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/126840738/john-baker-tyree

He is in Dunedin......i'm confused. 

1885/5120   Tyree   Ann Catherine   52Y
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18851029.2.11?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=william+tyree&snippet=true

She dies in Dunedin. 

William Tyree dies aged 69 on 14/8/1889 Not sure about this. This William Tyree lived in Dunedin.

Could you pl clarify who the William Tyree Snr is. Is he the father of Mary & John with Ann Catherine Baker Tyree?  Yes it is

Was it WT 'Snr' and AC Tyree who emigrated from Australia with Frances Hodgman Tyree Brockelbank. Also presumably this William Tyree living in Dunedin is not the William Tyree the photographer from Nelson. (I know of the Nelson photogrpaher Tyree and keep get him mixed in my mind) 

if there is a William Tyree Snr who is William Tyree Jnr?