Author Topic: Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand  (Read 1334 times)

Offline Darian Zam

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Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« on: Thursday 23 January 25 15:17 GMT (UK) »
I only come here when I am absolutely stumped. In 15 years as a researcher and social historian I think maybe 3 cases have eluded me, so it's rare I can't crack the mystery but - at this point I have run out of ideas on this one.
I have  in the past researched - and am again helping descendants research - Marry Ann Hodgman Tyree, known as Polly to the family, born Dunedin 1872.  I will refer to her as Polly Tyree henceforth for clarity.
This branch of the Tyrees in Dunedin had quite a number of illegitimate children and kid swaps sprinkled through it. They seem to have taken a bit of a cavalier attitude to progeny creation and child rearing. Not all of it good. That is just to set the scene a bit, that we have as a collective had some complicated moments sorting through it. Originally from the London area, England (although I think Tyree is an Irish name) a lot of the family were in Australia from the 1850s doing the gold-rushes there, mostly NW VIC and Melbourne areas, and moved back and forth from NZ a fair amount.
The name Tyree may be familiar to some genealogists and researchers here and this is because they were the well known photography family, ‘Tyree Bros’ Wiiliam and Fred Tyree, based in Nelson, and their uncle James Tyree who who was one of New Zealand's earlier pioneering photographers and also worked in Ballarat, Arrarat etc around NW Victoria goldfields area from the late 1850s.


The two pieces of evidence that Polly actually  existed are as follows:

Birth record inn NZ Govt Internal Affairs BMD birth records 1872/697

Nelson Provincial Museum photos, several  Tyree Bros portraits most likely her by process of elimination, titled 'M. Tyree' and 'Miss M. Tyree', 2 of the portraits are with her sister-in-law Mary Ann Cross Tyree. Image refs in NPM are 33164, 37085, 37086, 49804, 37085, 37086, 33872, a couple of others.


-No marriage record for Mary Hodgman Tyree, Mary Ann/Anne Tyree, Polly Tyree, Mary Hodgman, Polly Hodgman, also checked Hodgeman as the name was regularly misspelled

- No death record for all of the above

- NZ Electoral rolls show  no Mary Hodgman Tyree at all however, a Mary Ann/Mary Anne Tyree appears 1893, 1894, 1896, 1897, but ruled out as another family member, Mary Ann Emma Griffin who married George (Edward George) Tyree, so  Polly’s sister-in-law.

- Polly is not interred in Dunedin and in particular is not in the family plot with her parents, uncles, siblings in Northern Cemetery.

- No mention in newspapers of for Mary Hodgman Tyree, Mary Ann/Anne Tyree, Polly Tyree, Mary Hodgman, Polly Hodgman, also checked Hodgeman. This in itself is quite odd. At least you’d find exam or social mentions for a child/teen.
There are 21  mentions of Mary Tyree however 19, between 1927-1941, are ruled out as another family member Mary Arbuthnot Ashton nee Tyree (1916-), Auckland, daughter of John Victor and Aggie Hesselton Tyree who married Bruce Ashton Dec 1941. The two mentions that are NOT Mary Arbuthnot Tyree  ruled out as Polly  was obviously too young to attend high school in 1879 age 7.

- I ran through marriages and deaths in VIC, NSW and QLD, Britain from 1888-1938,  same for Scotland,   There is a possibility she went off to an obscure country, or – USA where there are a number of references to Mary H Tyrees, M H Tyrees Polly Tyrees etc but nothing really jumped as a possibility for one reason or another mostly because something immediately discounted them  I have not checked Irish records. I have not gone through every migration record available for M Tyree and P Tyree, mostly these don't give enough identifiers anyway to rule them in or out.

- Did all the old faithfuls - Google, Wikitree, Ancestry, Family Search, NZ Archives, VIC Archives, NSW Archives, Australian National Archives, UK National Archives, Find a Grave, FreeBMD, FindMyPast, Billion Graves, Migration records.

What happened to Polly? Even if one record has an error, another somewhere should cross reference, give just one hint or clue, rather than EVERY mention disappearing after her family portrait sessions which look to be the late 1880s. After that, NOTHING.   She has to be in records somewhere. It’s telling that something is amiss. The only real possibility besides an error is she completely changed her name.

Polly is NOT
Mary Hodgman Tyree Brown, England, 1829 (her aunt)
Mary Hodgman/Hodgeman Tyree Sexton, VIC AU 1882 (her cousin)
Mary Hodgman Tyree, 1854 VIC AU (her cousin)

Spelling variations or mistakes are Tyre, Tyrie but I haven't seen those variations quoted for this family except once as Tyre in an Australian newspaper.

Any tip and hints to follow up appreciated.

Images is Tyree, Miss M, prob Mary Hodgman Tyree. Nelson Provincial Museum Collection, ref 37086.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #1 on: Friday 24 January 25 00:29 GMT (UK) »
Just for added information here are the details from her birth certificate

1872/697   Tyree   Mary Hodgman   Anne Catherine   William

So the Hodgman name is that  the mothers maiden name or do you know where it comes from?

Offline Darian Zam

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 January 25 02:18 GMT (UK) »
Yes she was daughter of William Tyree Sr. and Ann Catherine nee Baker. A few descendants get Baker as a middle name.
The Hodgman name descends from William Tyree Sr.'s grandmother, so Polly Tyree's great grandma, her maiden name.
Frances Hodgman Brockleman, a name that comes up, was an illegitimate daughter of William Tyree Sr., who was brought to New Zealand with them upon migration from the Australian goldfields. She was raised by him and his wife Ann, treated entirely as family, and interred in the family plot.
Frances' mother Annie Jane Rhodes, married William's brother Jeremiah but not before having another2 kids out of wedlock. As I say they had a cavalier attitude towards this sort of stuff.

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #3 on: Friday 24 January 25 02:25 GMT (UK) »
Hello

Was also just about to query why the title of this topic has her name as
"Mary Ann (Polly) TYREE"   ?? ;)

Incidentally, her mother's christian name was spelled as "Ann" (Ann Catherine) in other records (death notice / death 1885 etc. )

Also curious to know how it is that you have knowledge that her "nickname" was "Polly"  ??

You have said ...

"Two pieces of evidence that Polly actually existed
    ...   NZ Birth record listing 1872/697   [ yes   ;) )

but ... the photo from Nelson Provincial Museum -  ex TYREE Bros. portraits ... cannot really be regarded as "evidence of existence".

    ~  Lu


Online mckha489

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 January 25 02:35 GMT (UK) »
Who is this Mary Tyree? At school in 1879

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18791213.2.26.2?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=Mary+tyree&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA

Does this one appear in school records in the Kiwi Collection? 

Offline Darian Zam

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 January 25 03:02 GMT (UK) »
I refer to this in my initial post. I don't know who it is. A lot of people obviously came in and out of New Zealand during the gold-rush decades.
I have no evidence it's a Tyree relation of this particular family at this time. Even if it was Polly Tyree (which it isn't, she would be 6-7 years old), all it would prove is that she was still around in 1880 which is a moot point given the photo portraits demonstrate she was still present and closely associated with the family into, at the very least, the late 1880s.

One possibility is Mary Caroline Tyree, Polly's cousin, as the ONLY Mary Tyree to historically be born in NZ before Polly. But did kids go to High school at age 11-12 back then?

1868/35921   Tyree    Mary Caroline    Annie   Frederick

Back on the theme of Tyree family illegitimacy, Mary Caroline had 3 illegitimate children of which only one survived infancy. She then married William Thomas Avery in 1893, had a child Olive with him who ALSO died in infancy after they accidentally smothered her while sleeping. William adopted her only surviving illegitimate child Arthur Tyree, who became Arthur Avery.

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #6 on: Friday 24 January 25 03:07 GMT (UK) »

Frances Hodgman Brockleman, a name that comes up, was an illegitimate daughter of William Tyree Sr., who was brought to New Zealand with them upon migration from the Australian goldfields.

You do mean Frances Hodgman TYREE married William BROCKLEBANK (NZ 1881)   ??

[NZSG marriages CD has "F. Hoolman TYREE" and NZ BDM index has "F. Hoopman TYREE"   ::) ;D  :   Most other NZ records show her as "Frances Hodgman ... "    Her probate file states she was born at Inglewood, VIC. ]

   ~ Lu

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 January 25 03:38 GMT (UK) »
Polly is a diminutive of Mary.  It can also be used for Molly. 

if we are to go by the birth record the only official first names the child born in 1872 had were

Mary

Hodgman (from father's family)

Tyree (father's name)

Over the years she may have 'accumulated' Ann or Anne, and Polly.  To me, Polly sounds as if it would be a pet or family name.  Did the use of Polly persist into adulthood and out of the family? 

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Mary Ann (Polly) Tyree of Dunedin, New Zealand
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 January 25 03:57 GMT (UK) »
Just swinging around the traps as they say:

Brother of Mary Hodgman Tyree. NB Mary has a name from the  father's family  while john has the mother's maiden name

1874/47657   Tyree   John Baker   Ann Catherine   William

is this the death of JB Tyree aged 2-3 months?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/126840738/john-baker-tyree

He is in Dunedin......i'm confused.  ???

1885/5120   Tyree   Ann Catherine   52Y
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18851029.2.11?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=william+tyree&snippet=true

She dies in Dunedin. 

William Tyree dies aged 69 on 14/8/1889 Not sure about this. This William Tyree lived in Dunedin.

Could you pl clarify who the William Tyree Snr is. Is he the father of Mary & John with Ann Catherine Baker Tyree?  Yes it is

Was it WT 'Snr' and AC Tyree who emigrated from Australia with Frances Hodgman Tyree Brockelbank. Also presumably this William Tyree living in Dunedin is not the William Tyree the photographer from Nelson. (I know of the Nelson photogrpaher Tyree and keep get him mixed in my mind) 

if there is a William Tyree Snr who is William Tyree Jnr?