Alice Tietkens help/interpretations

[ambrat666]

@wexflyer

That has definitely proven to be a problem. When researching Lizzie Miller, (to try and maybe, by extension, get more info on Mary) a family member identified that on other hospital records for a later date she is listed as a few years younger. I wish I aged younger like that, but it would obviously just be some sort if inconsistency knowing her age, which is not uncommon for Indigenous Australian people at that time.

I believe the Gurney family is well documented by comparison though. His age is definitely listed as 24, which corresponds with his supposed birth in 1882. You have to look very closely on the marriage certificate handwriting. He is the son of Emma Green and Edward Hudson Gurney. Edwards parents were the first in our family to settle in Australia.

[Dundee]

You have only posted part of the marriage certificate, did Alice not name a father?  Who were the witnesses?  Does her death certificate give a place of birth?  The children's birth certificates should also give ages and birthplaces for the parents.

Debra 

[ambrat666]

The writing on Alice's marriage certificate is difficult to interpret, I'm not sure if it's the handwriting or how the document was scanned...

The name and profession given for the father *looks* to me like 'Thomas Timkins' and 'Explorer'.

I really struggle with handwriting, so I would appreciate if anyone could try to discern some of the handwritten text.

The surnames Alice has given for herself on her children's birth certificates vary. She has listed Timkins, Titkins, Tietkins, Voake and Tickins. I think it is safe to assume she did not actually know her given surname.

I will try to get my hands on her first-born's birth certificate, hopefully it does have her age and even some additional info.

[sparrett]

I am disagreeing with the reading of others and see her age as 25.
The same hand has written the date 12th May in the left and the numeral 1 is clearly not the same as the 1 in her age. IMO .

The groom is a kangaroo hunter, his father a labourer, his mother Emma Green.
The bride is Alice Timkins aged 25 whose father is Thomas Timkins and mother Mary an aborigi (cut off)
Like you I think the occ of her father begins with Ex

One witness is G E Saunders the other Robena Burs..?

Sue

ADDING
Witness 2 may be Robena BURMAN who in 1908 is on the electoral roll in Esperance with James BURMAN a carpenter.

In 1916 she is in Fremantle c/o Mrs Hewitson of Broome Street Fremantle, and is a widow.

[Dundee]

The surnames Alice has given for herself on her children's birth certificates vary. She has listed Timkins, Titkins, Tietkins, Voake and Tickins. I think it is safe to assume she did not actually know her given surname.

It is unlikely that she registered any of the births herself,  do you have any of the certs?  How literate was her husband?

Alice was admitted to hospital in Adelaide several times and gives ages which equate to a birth year of 1881 (+/-) 1.  This is information that she would have given herself.  I also think the age at marriage is 25 and the sections for consent have been crossed out for both.

When she was buried in 1956 they believed that she was aged 77.

https://www.wattlerange.sa.gov.au/living-here/cemeteries/cemetery-search?action=grave&id=251452

Debra 

[Wexflyer]

The same hand has written the date 12th May in the left and the numeral 1 is clearly not the same as the 1 in her age. IMO .

Good point. But the 2 in the age of the groom is also clearly not the same!

[sparrett]

Yes. Quite so.   Just an opinion which, as mentioned by Dundee, may be born out by the fact that consent was seemingly not required for the woman's marriage.
Sue

[ambrat666]

@sparrett

That's a great point!

Hard to say though, because that 2 (for the date of 12th) doesn't look much at all like the 2 for Charlies age of twenty-four (ages probably written one after the other?) either!

@Dundee

Yes I apologise, I don't know if I made it clear, but I am definitely just hypothesising and working from the Hauxwell lead because it's the only information about Alice's parentage I've been able to *somewhat* verify. That (DNA matches) in conjunct with the hospital record containing Mary Ann from Fowler's Bay is what made me really consider the age on her marriage certificate being wrong (even though personally, I never thought it said 25)... That being said, I could be seeing something that's not there and it could easily be a coincidence.

ADDED - I believe Charlie would have been able to somewhat read and write as I was told he went to school but I will need to verify that.

Would you say the consent part of the marriage certificate being crossed out is most likely because they are 24 and 25, NOT to do with anything regarding the various 'Acts' at the time...? I would really appreciate your thoughts. This still places Alice's birth year differently to what most people in my family have recorded, either 1879 or 1885...

Unfortunately it seems to change to fit whoever's narrative (apparently my own included) and I am unable to tell who has gotten what information from where. It was particularly frustrating to be given a random name (Hauxwell) by someone from the UK with no real explanation or proof, but DNA matches that seem to co-respond...

From here onwards I will attempt to triangulate as many of the matches as possible and seek out records of May's birth to try confirming Alice's age. Hopefully this will provide me with more answers and leads to go off... I appreciate your time and help

[sparrett]

Tietkins was definitely at the Fowlers Bay district in 1880.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18944764?searchTerm=%22tietkins%20fowlers%20%22~15

So you are thinking he had a relationship with an indigenous woman named Mary at this time  and thus we have Alice who, if this is so, would be 25ish at marriage in 1906 which sits with a death age of 77 in 1956. (Dundee above).

Or you are wondering does your Hauxwell DNA come from a 1890 encounter between John Hauxwell and an indigenous girl named Ann Mary aged 16 from Fowlers Bay who was in hospital with an eye condition (which has causes other than syphilis) at the same time as he also was admitted.

This girl gave birth to Alice who grew up using the surname variations of Tietkins. She has the explorer's given name wrong at marriage. She states Thomas.

Have I understood?
 
 
Sue