John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845

[liverpoolgenealogy]

I think it is safe to say that John William did not have any siblings (that lived beyond infancy at least) or we would see them in the 1851 census.


Informant at Hugh William’s death looks like Ellen Parry
There is an Ellen / Eleanor Parry living in Llansadwrn, born abt 1800 in Llanfair. She has others and “children / grandchildren” with the surname Williams living with her. So there may be a family connection for you to check out.

Would agree with both of these things  There is Jane Parry living with John in Liverpool as a nurse in 1881, she was b. Anglesey, so again that could be a link. I will do more research on this.

[liverpoolgenealogy]

The term “pauper” recorded on the census was a little at the discretion of the census enumerator, I think.

Under the provisions of the Poor Law, a pauper was a person having no property or means of livelihood; a person dependent on the charity of others (whether public charity or family).
I think Grace was receiving an income of sorts, from her son once he was earning enough. This was the “annuity” recorded a couple of times – again the census enumerator’s choice.

Thank you! I hadn't known this, but that would definitely explain it. 

[Neale1961]

Deleted, incorrect census

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Potential 1841 census for them, almost next to eachother?

Grace:
can't read place name
John Thomas, 65, farmer, not born county
Grace do, 25, born county
Margaret do, 15, born county
Margaret Edmund, 25, FS, born county
William Jones, 20, MS, born county

Again struggling to read address for Hugh, but its on the same document.
Separate dwelling house:
Hugh Williams, 19, MS, born county
Owen Williams, 16, MS, born county
Mary Roberts, 20, FS, born county

Piece   1363
Book   12
Folio   11
Page number   16

Not sure about this, there are a few things that don't fit, like Grace's father being a farmer rather than a Labourer that she said he was on the marriage record in 1842, but it caught my eye because there is a Grace and Hugh fairly close together, with Grace older.

The Thomases are at Hen-Drefor - https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/40409a2d-6197-4620-b744-5b29b90df42b

Whilst John is listed as farmer, it could have been quite a small holding and he might also have been a labourer on another farm when needs required.

The "address" Hugh Williams is at is "separate dwelling house"  I'm assuming it's connected to the household listed above, which is at Pencraig. I think it suggests a small cottage or outbuilding separate to the main farmhouse, perhaps in the yard - the fact there's a collection of servants listed there would support that idea.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Also, forgive me, I'm not familiar with researching in Wales, the addresses on the census don't all look like addresses as they would be in England. At the 1851 census, Grace and John lived at Tyn Capel, could this have been a street in Llansadwrn? It only looks like a small village even today, but every family on the census pages seem to have a different address? 

Llansadwrn parish has the village of Llansadwrn then some smaller communities and individual named dwellings in the surrounding countryside. Ty Capel/Tyn Capel is basically Chapel House/Houses - think the building may still exist (or a successor) as  a house in a row with a very similar name was advertised for rent recently. Postcode is LL59 5SR

If you go north east from Hen Drefor on the map at the link I posted above you'll find Ucheldref (see address on Hugh Williams' baptism) and "meth. chapel"  ie methodist chapel, the Capel in the other address. They didn't move very far! this area matches the postcode

[Mabel Bagshawe]

IN 1841 Ellen Parry b 1801 is living at a place called College, which is just down the road from Ucheldre and the chapel

[Neale1961]

At time of marriage in May 1842 the abodes are written on marriage record.
Grace was at Penrhyn which is on Cemaes Bay Llanbadrig
Not sure what Hugh’s abode was Pentre h??

[liverpoolgenealogy]

The Thomases are at Hen-Drefor - https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/40409a2d-6197-4620-b744-5b29b90df42b

Whilst John is listed as farmer, it could have been quite a small holding and he might also have been a labourer on another farm when needs required.

The "address" Hugh Williams is at is "separate dwelling house"  I'm assuming it's connected to the household listed above, which is at Pencraig. I think it suggests a small cottage or outbuilding separate to the main farmhouse, perhaps in the yard - the fact there's a collection of servants listed there would support that idea.

Thank you! Especially for the link, that's really useful!

Llansadwrn parish has the village of Llansadwrn then some smaller communities and individual named dwellings in the surrounding countryside. Ty Capel/Tyn Capel is basically Chapel House/Houses - think the building may still exist (or a successor) as  a house in a row with a very similar name was advertised for rent recently. Postcode is LL59 5SR

If you go north east from Hen Drefor on the map at the link I posted above you'll find Ucheldref (see address on Hugh Williams' baptism) and "meth. chapel"  ie methodist chapel, the Capel in the other address. They didn't move very far! this area matches the postcode

Perhaps, if this 1841 census return is in a similar area, maybe it is the correct one then? The ages and John's occupation threw me a little, as I said, but Grace's ages are quite off in some of the earlier censuses, so not necessarily a deal breaker, and of course, you provided a good explanation for John's occ. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your help and knowledge. 

[liverpoolgenealogy]

At time of marriage in May 1842 the abodes are written on marriage record.
Grace was at Penrhyn which is on Cemaes Bay Llanbadrig
Not sure what Hugh’s abode was Pentre h??

I was also struggling with that! We know they had a connection to the Llanbadrig area, and the Llansadwrn area, I had a look for place names around there but struggled to find a fit.